Some thoughts on vigilance

I would assume when people say “get over it” they mean stop acting like a victim, stop panicking, and start dealing with the problem rationally.

I don’t like terrorism, but I also don’t like the number of auto fatalities in this country. That doesn’t mean I would like to see the TV media spend 24/7 on car fatalities.

People aren’t out to “do bad things to me”. Most terrorism is either state sponsored (often by “friendly” states such as Israel and our own government), in which case turning to states to solve the problem is futile. Other terrorism would be best viewed as criminal activity, and should be investigated and handled through conventional channels of justice.

If we can put half a million people in jail on minor drug charges, I’m sure the regular system isn’t too overloaded to be handling vandalism. Whether someone tries to derail a train for fun, or for political reasons makes little difference, its a criminal act with criminal intent.

I know 3 dead friends from this year alone who died in traffic accidents… I know of 0 who died or were even hurt from terrorism.

Perspective is important.

If you wanted to save human lives, fighting third world poverty would be much more cost-effective. In so doing, you would also radically reduce the number of people who want to kill large numbers of you.

Let’s put it this way - It’s not going to stop until you wise up! (Thanks to Aimee Mann)

Fighting things like hunger, disease, the need for decent housing and education, etc. is something that goes without saying we must try and address as well as possible forever (Jesus said, “The Poor with always be with us…”; only too true, I’m afraid…) However, human behavior defies simple logic. Let’s do what we can to fight third world poverty, yes, but we must face the fact that evil will always be with us, and vigilence will also always be needed…

Dear Chris,

a little before the war, I paid $20 to help sponsor your trip. I am an Arab, and I wanted some good reporting from the region.

You told me about what the Syrians were doing at the border. Thank you. You told me about the problems and dreams of the Kurds. Thank you. And you showed me how hard it is to do journalism in today’s world without the budgets of huge corporate backers. Thank you.

For these examples and all the other good reporting the you have done, I thank you for expanding my horizons.

I was also looking forward to paying for the foreign correspondent idea that you had floated. It’s brave, novel, and if it came true, would add to my knowledge of the world.

But this kind of reporting is not something I am interested in. I am aware that Al-Qaeda is active, and understand the danger that they pose. I am also aware that the US army is returning to policies reminiscient of Vietnam, and supporting oppressive regimes just because they contain “terrorism”, even at the expense of democracy and other human rights.

And I am aware, as the two previous posters have pointed out, of the far greater danger that poverty and road traffic accidents pose. Sadly I’m aware of how little attention and funding is given to tackling these issues.

If you are going to add to my knowledge with stories that have important perspective, I would like to read them, and I am willing to fund the reporting. But sharing the story of a possible attack by Al-Qaeda is of no interest or use to me, even as I live in the United States and may die from such an attack.

I wish you luck with whatever choices you make in the future of your reporting.

Let us recognize that al Qaeda is a very real enemy of the US and the West in general. Let us also recognize that the actions of this administration have done wonders for Osama’s recruitment drive. We will have to live with these facts from now on.

The reactions of the administration so far - USA PATRIOT Act, preventive detentions which abuse the policy of material witness statutes, executive orders for military tribunals - are but small impediments to a determined enemy. Some reactions are just a recognition that we do need to be vigilant. Others, though, threaten our basic liberties, among them habeas corpus.

Let us further recognize that al Qaeda will do it’s damnedest to touch off a nuclear bomb in a US city some time in the future. If not able to pull that off, there will be determined efforts to pull off something similar. Hundreds, thousands, even millions may die. The fact that ain’t none of us getting out of this alive is little comfort. We all want to die of extreme old age.

There are three positive things we can do to minimize the threat. 1) Take the fight to al Qaeda, by law enforcement and where necessary with limited military action. Limited to definite targets, not potshots like the hit on the convoy to Syria this weekend. This is the “hunt ‘em down and bring ‘em to justice” Bushism. 2) Remove this administration in the next election, and shred, burn and stomp on the ashes of its National Security Strategy. We must abandon the empire-building course which Bush is following, and return to the practice of diplomacy. 3) Follow Chris’ advice to keep vigilant. Not only to al Qaeda, but to our own government. Be vigilant, but not paranoid.

Yes, I said we need to “get over the specter of terrorist threats.”

I also said,

“Until we deal with this new American Imperialism and the forces that support it, we will not be able to eliminate the root causes of terrorist threats and terrorism in general.”

When the whole country is subjected to “Terror Alerts”—level Yellow, level Orange, etc.—it dumbs down the concept of the terrorist threat. Do we have information that a dirty bomb is going to go off at the Fargodome in North Dakota? Is there going to be a tanker ship loaded with dynamite set off in Boston Harbor? Or is a biological agent going to be set loose in the Utah desert? [Wait a minute…that last one was our own Black Ops.]

If we think there’s going to be a tornado in Kansas, do we issue a watch or a warning for the Eastern Seaboard, as well? Why not the entire lower 48, Alaska and Hawaii too?

This is what I mean by “specter”.

The real problem of terrorism is not a topic of discussion in our media. Why do people want to hurt the United States? What is it that they perceive that we have that draws their ire to the point of violence?

I suspect that the real targets are the multinational corporations based here that control so much of the wealth in the world with so little regard for human life and the government that supports their actions. I mean, I’m upset that I’m earning peanuts while the CEO of the company I work for made close to $30 million dollars last year. What about the poor guy in Afghanistan making $120 a year who looks at me and thinks that I’m like the CEO? If someone starts preaching the gospel of evil Americans to him, they might just whip up enough animosity to get him to join the cult.

That’s just my perspective. I don’t know any or all of the reasons that terrorists want to hurt the United States. But that’s what we need to know. If there is a need for vigilance, it is vigilance toward knowing the root causes of terrorism and working to stop them.

Vigilance does not mean fear of our own shadows. It does not mean invading Iraq because someone presents false evidence they are developing nuclear weapons, or claims that they are ready to use weapons of mass destruction against us. It means getting to the bottom of the things we ignore that are the root causes of terrorism.

Steve Jones -

I agree with you for the most part, except I don’t take it for granted Al Queda, or other terrorist groups are hatching a plot to detonate a dirty bomb in a major city.

Detonating atom bombs is not something any human being takes lightly, no matter how oppressed their group is. We heard these same scary statements about the Russians, and they heard them about us. You can assume this, but don’t assume the rest of us assume this.

There may be one or two screwy people in Al Queda who would actually use a nuke if they had it, but I seriously doubt they would be represenative of Al Queda as a whole. Al Queda is a resistance fighters organization, with some mafia-like qualities. They aren’t the Legion of Doom bend on destroying the world like Fox would have you believe.

Like the IRA or Malcolm X, or any other “terrorist” group, they have real motivations and real limitations… and in the end are fighting to protect a freedom or belief they hold dear… and are not just out to kill “freedom loving” white people.

Davin, thank you for being an Al Queda apologist. I’m sure they’ll see you’re post & will change their entire world view. Go ahead & put your trust in Al Queda if you want to.

Lest you forget, if you pay taxes, you’re a legitimate target for Al Queda,

Davin, I don’t know what kind of bizzaro world you live in, but in the real world Al Q is a TERRORIST organization. They are not “resistance fighters.” They are criminals and murderers. Sept. 11th, 2001 showed the world that. You’re naivety is stunning, and the fact that you would apologize for them is truly insulting.

The fact that you compare Al Q to Malcom X is indicitive of your ignorance concerning American history. Malcom X never killed anyone, but he was murdered himself after breaking with the Nation of Islam. You need to grow up.

Davin,

I do recognize that al Qaeda is an assembly of organizations, and that not all members salivate for our destruction. However, the ultimate goal of al Qaeda is to reestablish the Caliphate, and to absorb or destroy those who oppose or resist that goal. They are not out to destroy the world, but are out to claim it for themselves.

I also believe that if four people can, wide-eyed and at peace with their decision, fly airplanes loaded with about a hundred fellow human beings into buildings filled with several thousand fellow human beings, not much can stop someone who has made a similar decision but using a different tool.

Forgive me my broad generalization in the initial post. My goal was not to paint al Qaeda as the Legion of Doom, but to get folks thinking about the very real prospect that some folks out there may very well be planning such a thing. Why were the Russians building “suitcase bombs” (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/russia/suitcase/)? Why did we build the Mk-54 SADM (Small Atomic Demolition Munition) (http://nuketesting.enviroweb.org/hew/News/DoSuitcaseNukesExist.html)? Because both our governments had fanatics within them who could envision uses for such devices.

If you’d like to continue this discussion, let’s get out of Chris’ hair - drop me an email. Oh, and me? Watch Fox? Gaaahh! Never!

Regards,

Steve

Klaatu

9-11 has not been tied to any group, regardless what has been said by the current administration. I have read as much as I can find about that day, and it all just points back to a big “we don’t know, and we don’t want to know”.

When an investigation is done, and those who conspired to make 9-11 possible are brought to justice I will be cheering with the rest at their hanging.

I’m not about to join in the big witch-hunt until I know what happened. Al Queda has an agenda like that of the IRA or the Black Panthers. The IRA kills people, the panthers were willing too if need be. I just happened to list two movements of the past to point out they have real agendas, and aren’t just about violence. My point was not to say they are the same as the black panthers. It should be noted though that Malcolm X was called a terrorist in his time. To deal with these groups you have to understand them, not just throw around a lot of swagger and “we will win” slogans.

It’s a sad day in America when a group is dismissed instantly as evil just because the state has declared them such. I don’t like what they do, any more than I like all other violent acts. I have to say though; Nato forces over the last decade have killed as many innocents if not more than any dictator or terrorist group. I have a girlfriend in Yugoslavia who got to witness our loving embrace first hand.

I’m sorry if my not condemning Al Q wholesale makes you think I’m some kind of terrorist lover. Feel free to join the Army if you believe strongly that our state is right, they are looking for people.

It is my beleif that if Al Qaeda were to launch an attack on America, they would certainly do so while Bush is still in office. That way, the American people will react by firmly re-elcting president Bush for revenge purposes, thereby continuing the war, and everyone’s agendas. The sad fact that humans have not evolved, even in an advanced culture such as the USA is so very easily predicted. Make no mistake about this, Al Qaeda picked a fight, and we are simply playing into their hands by trying to stomp out an ant farm with a big ol’ club. An entire 20th century society founded on freedom can be simplified to the fear and revenge found in stone age societies. In my most humble opinion…

Gerald concludes that we’re playing into the hands of Al Qaeda. We don’t know much about them (we only see their propaganda). While it’s a good idea to help the world’s poverty and freedom of expression, we don’t know how responsible we are for Al Qaeda’s campaign. It’s entirely likely that we are a convenient external enemy for a group which is attempting to foment a popular revolution against governments across the Middle East. Yes, we support some of these governments, but it’s unclear that Middle Eastern govn’ts we DON’T support are any more beloved of Al Qaeda. America’s support of Saudi Arabia and Israel may be only marginally related to Al Qaeda’s campaign of violence against us.

Given this, America needs to find a balance between vigilance and civil liberties. Bush’s governement tends towards the vigilance side. It’s unclear what the right balance should be—a lot depends on the intentions of terror groups we know very little about.

Caveats:

1. IMHO we should continue to push for a mutually-agreeable compromise between Israel and the Palestinians.

2. IMHO we should get our troops out of Saudia Arabia and let the popular revolutions happen as they may need to. More stable access to oil isn’t worth getting between angry Arabs and their autocratic governments.

Was 11.sep announced beforehand? Did some terrorist leader warn about any of the recent bombings in Kenya, Tschetschenia, Saudi-Arabia?

Has there been any attacks because somebody who sounds like Osama wanted to attack americans? How many terrorist leaders have threatened US these last few years?

My point is some are all talk, and some do the actual bombing these two groops are seldom overlapping. If there is going to be a terrorist strike on american soil this will be independent of the Bush administration’s threat level and the ammount of media attention some terrorist leader get.

In fact, the big screw-up in Iraq might lead Al Qaeda to not attack the US. The reasoning is as follows:

Bush has screwed up in Iraq. By keeping out of sight, Al Qaeda will make sure that Bush will be able to shift focus back onto the war on terrorism. That way, the entire right wing within the Republican party will get sidelined for quite a while.

We also need to remember that Al Qaeda will soon have accomplished their goal - no US soldiers in the Holy Land (Saudi Arabia).

So, standing by and watching the Bush administration fall apart is certainly an option for Al Qaeda.

Bush provoked 9-11.

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That myth exploded with the first plane that hit the first World Trade Tower on Sept. 11.

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I’ll just keep posting it until it no longer applies…

“Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear - kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor - with the cry of grave national emergency. Always there has been some terrible evil at home or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it.”

Gen Douglas MacArthur

There’s a grim irony in reading the reflexive “you’re with us or against us” posts. Such people are helping the terrorists.

Viewed as a military conflict, Al Qaida’s position is clearly hopeless. To get a sense of the disparity, the US will spend $400B on its military; Iraq spent a few billion per year in the last years of Saddam; the Taliban spent several hundred million, and Al Qaida probably has a fraction of that at its disposal.

But viewed as an economic/social conflict, Al Qaida has had stunning success. The financial damage inflicted at New York and Washington amounted to several tens of billions of dollars; the loss of human life about what tobacco claims in 4 days.

But the multiplier effect is astonishing! Al Qaida has persuaded the United States to raise its military spending by $100B , and will impose an additional cost of approximately $60B/year for occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq. The travel and lodging industries were badly damaged, costing the economy many billions. When imports and exports are properly screened, the economic damage caused by delays and false positives will be significant— perhaps a permanent subtraction of a few tenths of a percentage point of growth every year (each tenth of a percent is $100B). And, of course, the anger that is developing in foreign countries against the colossal American arrogance one sees is reflected in calls for boycotts of American goods.

Panic, American strutting and divisions in our society is just what the terrorists want. They have succeeded in silencing any criticism of the Bush Administration— lubricating the way for corrupt deals such as awarding corporate criminal MCI contracts in Iraq or the corrupt FCC ruling that would permit Murdoch to control American media completely. Soon, the Bush Administration will surpass that of Warren Harding for corruption. And with corruption, comes national decline.

That is what Al Qaida’s goal is.

Silly little people with empty heads and loud voices go around trying to silence any criticism of the Administration. They’d be less dangerous to the United States of America if they joined bin Laden outright.

What is badly needed is an Administration that genuinely cares about the many injustices in the Arab world and is willing to call the American people to sacrifice to rectify them. What is badly needed is leadership that does not stoke fear and division to gain political advantage. What is needed is a president who does not lie.

In a few months, or perhaps a year, American troops will be Iran. Special Forces are already actively destabilizing that country. Troops have already crossed into Syria— we are told this was due to a mistake, but that’s unlikely. Troops are in South America… an American-backed attempt to overthrow the Venezuelan government failed, but not by much. And then there’s North Korea.

This will end badly. Fools are in charge, and fools rush to support them.

Mr. Utwater, truer words were never written. It continues to boggle my mind how Americans allowed a rush to impeach a former President because he lied about a sexual act; yet those same Americans now do not care how baldly we have been lied to over and over by Bush and his administration, with the result of American troops dying on foreign soil.

Perhaps the greatest achievement of this “Bush holy war” in Iraq is that if/when the next big terrorist act is carried out on U.S. citizens, we will be hard pressed to find a friend in the entire world expressing sympathy or support. I suppose we will have to order them to feel sorry and be our friends, eh?

The other day i watched Dr. Strangelove, or (How I Stopped Worrying and Grew to Love the Bomb). This movie is really quite funny and is amazing in how timeless it is. I have just been noticing how many of the points that movie brought up regarding the Cold War are aplicable today in our present rediculously demented and irrational state of fear. Both the Cold War and todays War on Terror hinge on the same basic thing, We as citizens of industrialized nations have our heads firmly lodged up our asses. As it was in the Cold war, we are unwilling dig into the issue and find its real cause. Instead we sit and come up with contingency plan after contingency plan, continuing the cycle of hate. People don’t like America for a reason. America is a vastly ethnocentric land full of people willing to stomp on any less powerful nation in order to get its own way. America’s consumerist binge feeds off the backs of all of these nations that for some reason dislike it. Maybe if America started following international law and stopped pulling its guns out at the slightest twitch, people would respect it a little more and not want to kill so many of its citizens.

We must support our troops

Interesting take…

“Who Is Dying In The War?”

By Ross James

We are fighting a war on terror

The task is noble, just and fair

To start with Taliban was no error

Had to get to the Beast in his lair

The proud Marines arrive in the Stan

They skillfully flex the American might

And who is dying in that fight?

Our poor, rural White!

We switched to the neighbor

To topple dictator Hussein

Spent tons of money and labor

To make that nation free and sane

And who is dying in Iraq?

Our poor, inner-city Black!

Now, the sight of the riffle is set on Iran

Time to ship Marines to Teheran

And who will die in Middle Asia?

And poor kids of South East Asia!

The brass will ask for fresh replacement

Citing “freedom”, “tough engagement”

But the rich won’t get scared or panic

They will send our poor Hispanic!

Latinos will fight with valor and smile

No gripe or complaints, just toil

The rich will some later in style

To get richer by selling Iranian oil

Big bosses, who send our children to war,

Send theirs to study finance and law

They cannot be distracted beyong their pale

They are busy at Harvard, Princeton and Yale

The ads for the ivy league campus

Are deceptively simple and quiet

No fuss, democratic, not pompous

No cause for attention or riot

But the ads for the poor and loud and slicker

“To serve in the Army is an adventure!”

But the rich just dismiss it and snicker

“To be in the Army is an indenture”

When fighting is done in the Middle East

The rich will scheme for another feast

They never, ever have enough

To satisfy their greed for more

They will invent another “noble” war

And again, poor kids get a deal of raw

They will die for the “New World Order”

The rich will prosper in finance and law

And the poor will still be cannon fodder

To defend our nation and die for its freedom

To preseve its uniqueness and beauty

Should not be the lot of the poor alone

It must be aways collective American duty!

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