OK. With all the bloodshed going on today in Iraq, I needed to take a break and point out this story about two GIs who met and married two Iraqi women. The newlyweds met while the women were acting as interpreters for the occupation forces.
I'm sure there are legitimate concerns about combat troops marrying while in theater and all that, but damn... Just for a moment, let's enjoy a little good news.
I really, really wish the couples well and all the best of luck. Lord knows they'll need it.
Marriage Vows in Iraq
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I honestly don't know what I think about this story: In the 20 weeks since the fall of Baghdad, two U.S. soldiers and two Iraqi women won each other's hearts. The American men and Iraqi women courted, fell in love Read More
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About me
Hi there! Thanks for stopping in. I'm Christopher Allbritton, former AP and New York Daily News reporter. In 2002, I went stumbling around Iraqi Kurdistan, the northern part of Iraq outside Saddam's direct control, looking for stories. (Some might call it "looking for trouble.") In March 2003, I made it back in time for the war, becoming the Web's first fully reader-funded journalist-blogger. With the support of thousands of readers, we raised almost $15,000. You can read my dispatches here. It was one of the moments in journalism when everything worked. It was a grand -- and successful -- experiment in independent journalism. In 2004, I moved to Iraq, where I would spend the next two years. It was a raucous, scary and exciting place with a lot of news going on. But I've since moved on to Beirut and the wider region. I now report for a variety of outlets.
That is definitely positive news. I hope everything works out well for them, also…
a little love story to remind us of the sweetness of life…may they be blessed…and Chris, thanks for the news and for being you.
Its just too bad that good news never gets the media attention as the bad does.
What will happen to these soldiers now? They are offically Islamic converts correct? But weren’t US soldiers under not fratinization rules concerning this conflict? Can they now be discharged from service?
John Jimenez
http://gore2004.meetup.com/
http://www.draftgore.com
Isn’t Bush still trying to pretend this is a war on terror and not a new crusade of Judeo-Christianity vs Islam? What has being Muslim (new convert or otherwise) got to do with fratinisation rules?
I AM A NEWCOMER TO THIS WEB SITE..HOWEVER..I AM
A BUSH/CHENEY SUPPORTOR…THIS WAR IS NOT ABOUT OIL,THIS WAR IS NOT ABOUT RIDDING THE WORLD OF MUSLIMS,THIS WAR IS NOT ABOUT MUCH OF WHAT IS BEING TOUTED AS PRESIDENT BUSH OTHER AGENDA..
THIS WAR IS ABOUT 9/11…THIS WAR IS ABOUT PROTECTING OUR BABIES FROM DESPERATE MEN WHO ARE SO EVIL..THEY HIDE BEHIND A VEIL OF OF DARKNESS BEYOND SATAN HIMSELF.
This was sort of a stealth story for me. Maybe I’m just no fun but the “love story” aspect of it just bores me; I hardly saw it as “good news from the front.”
True to my nature, the bad news aspect of it has drifted into my view.
Is it not the case that in the catalog of Great American Myths, right up there with Rags to Riches or Small Town Boy Makes Good, there is the story of the War Bride? When our troops go overseas a certain number of them are expected to come home with exotic foreign wives. This is the theme of movies.
For me it was not just mythology. I’m an Air Force brat and growing up it was perfectly normal to me that a number of my Dad’s fellow officers had wives from Thailand, or Singapore, or Iran. I took this as clear evidence that America (since I took military people as perfectly representative of the USA) was not basically racist, and that however many loudmouthed nuts there were spouting off racist screeds a new age had already dawned.
So this story of interference from the American brass strikes me as very very odd.
Now I never made a study of this stuff; certainly there are “anti-fraternization” rules but I think these are meant to apply only during combat and only against “the enemy,” and to an extent against agitating the locals.
There are regions American forces have overtly occupied (like in the Caribbean and Latin America) where I am not aware of notable numbers of wives coming to America from. It could be that the military smiles on it in some theaters and not others—possibly for both racist and political reasons.
Furthermore I never heard of one of our guys converting to their religion just so he could get married. I always figured it went the other way. Islam is very down on that of course; once someone is accepted as a Muslim the traditional remedy against that person embracing any other religion is supposed to be death for apostasy. So if the women had converted or in any way repudiated Islam they probably could never go home in peace no matter what happens with future US-Iraqi relations.
But I think the remarks by the superiors who were against the marriages are very revealing. Perhaps this is what they said in Haiti and the Dominican Republic and Grenada too: we can’t have you soldiers have a bunch of hostages to fortune for in-laws out there.
Because our presence there is not an act of friendly support or nation building. If it were, the downside of possible blackmail against the morale of soldiers would be far more than offset by the building of networks of trust and solidarity between us and Iraqis. No, this betrays either a deep conviction that we will never be welcome there, or a cynical understanding that we have no intention of acting as anything but a predatory bandit in those parts—and therefore we will never be welcome, for we have made the Iraqis the enemy by our own national will.
Or maybe the officers in question are just plain racist, or some kind of Christianist bigots, and their attitude toward the soldiers’ “apostasy” is exactly mirroring the traditional Muslim attitude.
In any event-the story is not the love story but the hate story. The lovers are star-crossed by men wearing American general’s stars. That is awesomely shocking.
Julie Ann, “men from beyond the dark veil of Satan himself” is pretty much how I’d describe Bush and Cheney. And all that gang. Who has done more to cloud their actions in lies and deception then they have?
I suspect you are a “Christianist,” a term I got from another person who linked to this story—a “Christianist” is someone who cloaks a basically nationalist, selfish, worldly agenda of power in the garb of allegedly Christian doctrine, much as many people purporting to be good Muslims actually distort the traditional teachings into a machine for their own rule and should be called “Islamists” rather than Muslims. A “Christianist” is what G.W. Bush certainly is, whether or not he is the believer he claims to be. But if you really think the attacks on the Middle East have anything to do with protecting your babies, instead of putting them in far worse danger for the sake of consolidating the rule of a few rich families over our nation and the world, maybe you are just plain deluded, like the guys who took over those airplanes.
Where is there a shred of evidence that anyone in Iraq had anything to do with 9/11? There is a lot more evidence pointing to Bush himself, and his brother. Have you forgotten that the attackers trained in Florida?
If we are in Iraq to save the world from evil, why are US officers trying to prevent their soldiers from marrying Iraqi women? Is it because they think the people themselves are evil and have to be exterminated? That is what your “support” of the Bush/Cheney gang against our criticism seems to amount to.
If Bush and Cheney are the great white hopes of the world, why don’t they supply their own solidiers with enough machine guns to protect themselves, so they don’t have to use seized stocks of AK-47s? Because they are too busy distributing contract pork to their corporate supporters (just saw another link about a Halliburton claim it would take $50 million to rebuild a bridge in Iraq that could be rebuilt for under $ 1 million) and tax cut pork to their political supporters, and something has to give—the poor bloody infantryman, that’s who has to “give”—lives, fortunes and sacred honor to people who have way too much fortue and no discernable honor at all. Why do they refuse to see to it that combat hazard pay is raised for these National Guardsmen who are being forced to spend months overseas in a deadly place, stalked not only by hostile local people but strange diseases that may well be the result of botched immunizations against anthrax weapons that turn out to have been nothing more than manipulative lies—that are now killing these American service men and women? Some of the dying are practically the “babies” you say you want to protect.
Not to mention the thousands of Iraqis and people in Afghanistan, whom I suppose you, as a Bush/Cheney supporter, have no concern about at all.
You are Bush/Cheney supporter. You had the instinct, or the shame, not to claim to be a supporter of America, or peace. Plenty of people who have put themselves on the line to defend America, or peace, or both, have suffered under your Leaders. Quite a few of these are solidiers who may or may not have gone into this believing as you do. I think if they came back and spoke freely now you’d find their minds have changed and if you listened to them with an open mind and a heart devoted to the good things you say you are for, you’d admit you had been betrayed too. Don’t say we did not warn you.
It is always great with love, but this lovestory seem to be a little to quick, with converting etc. I talked to some soldiers down there and they say there is more to this story. Seems quite risky and naiv. The soldiers are not going home before January, couldn´t they wait and more get to know each other?
Charly that loves love and mixed marriage
In my experience, servicemembers marrying foreign women is not some act of racial or ethnic equality. Typically, they want a women who keeps her mouth shut and does all the cleaning. Unlike most American women. American women want to be treated, well, equally, which for some atavistic military men, is a problem.
It sounds like these two soldiers are honestly in love, and are having to prove so by jumping through some very awkward hoops. I hope everything works out for them.
J JulieAnn, I, like you, came to this websight looking for answers about Iraq. What I found was alot of anti American propaganda from liberals like Mark. Always quick to condem Presidents Bushs policys and no answers to the very urgent problems that we face today. Also lacking is the many great things that are happening in this world today because of Bushs policys. Marks President Clinton had eight years to deal with this. He was too busy getting his d**k sucked to be bothered with terrorism. If your looking for real information based on fact, go to instapundit.com. Lots of links to aritcles ranging from Iraq to Californian debate. Also, lt-smash.us, He is home from Iraq but links to many sights in Iraq. One other is dearraed.blogspot.com, He is in Iraq, I have been following him since beginning of the war. He is becoming a little cynicle about America, but please understand their situation is very difficult.
Also, did you know when you type in caps, it means your shouting, I know, I used to type that way too.
Mark, you represent everything wrong with America. It is people like you that would like to turn the US into another France, A socialist walfare state that appeases tyrants and dictators. With their crumbling economy (four now in recession, France to follow if they contract again next month),unemployment at 9.6% and Islamic extremist invading by the thousands.
I have recommendations for correcting Bush policies that I find unacceptable. Regarding reconstruction contracts in Iraq, they should be open to bid with preference to Iraqi bidders. With this policy, the New Diyala Bridge [http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/20030801riverbendblogarchive.html#106208201838841818] could be rebuilt for, say, $1.2 mil instead of $50 mil, putting Iraqis back to work and keeping some American tax dollars working at home. But then Shrub’s big contributors (Bechtel) wouldn’t be getting their payoff.
How about that? Should I continue? Wouldn’t it be nice to divert $48.8 million into support for jobhunters in the USA, or to lower university tuitions or buy some elders some medications? Does Bechtel really need American taxpayer charity?
Multiply this by 30 or 40 bridges that need repair in Iraq.
Mark, you’re what’s right with America, don’t let the dogs bother you. :-) Christianist… I’ll be mulling that over for a while. Brilliant. GB’s pretenteous Godbothering is really troublesome. One can imagine him imagining God on his shoulder like some homunculus, whispering in his ear, patting him on the back, soothing his pResidential frets.
As for love, I say rock on! Give a hand up, and a carrot rather than a stick.
See, we can talk in sound bites and aphorisms.
Let’s take a moment to examine. We have people here that are pro Bush, which of course is fine, but why do these people always have so much hate in them? They tend to speak with vulgarities and passion, and to be honest those are characteristics of fundamentalist behavior. This goes for the left too. If your so incensed by your beliefs that you start typing and shouting in vulgarities, it’s time to take a step back and wonder what issues you have inside that maybe are using current events as an expression of your inner turmoil and anger.
for example: too busy getting his d**k sucked
whoa there, maybe you have some d*ck sucking issues. This isn’t the forum for such things.
another example: THIS WAR IS ABOUT PROTECTING OUR BABIES FROM DESPERATE MEN WHO ARE SO EVIL..THEY HIDE BEHIND A VEIL OF OF DARKNESS BEYOND SATAN HIMSELF.
babies being protected from people who are more evil than Satan himself? Better get the duct tape out, because their is some serious paranoia running around in your noggin. You’re saying that people like Saddam Housein, who I believe is an honorary mayor of Detroit, by the way, is not in fact a man, but more akin to the mythical fallen angel from the Bible? Sounds to me like we have some serious fundamentalism going on there, and it’s pretty scary.
When I don’t like what I see on the Internet, Lucy, I generally look elsewhere. Shall I assume you have done so and won’t be back? Most right-wing types like you I’ve seen don’t do that though; they are always trying to shut down everything that disagrees with them.
In case you check back, you should know that the reason we did not get attacked on the scale of 9/11 during the Clinton years was that Clinton was doing his job, more or less. He had people keeping track of Osama bin Laden for instance. Eight years of Clinton and no big attacks; nine months of Bush and wham! You can see why I might think of 9/11 as Bush’s baby. He sure does dote on the child.
Thank you Jeanie and Gerald for common sense!
Dear veteran: I hear you. I didn’t get out much as a kid. I was just relaying my impressions of three families whom I spent very little time with. They may have been as nice as they looked to me, but have been only the rare exception to the rule. Or maybe I didn’t see stuff I should have. I had a lot of wrong ideas when I was in high school; jJULIE or Lucy might have liked me better back then! But I don’t get the impression they think of mixed marriages and bridging cultural gaps is the good thing I thought it was then; I was right-wing but it was because I genuinely believed the stuff about America I was supposed to believe. Back then racism was officiallysupposed to be a bad thing. Writers like James Michener (Tales of the South Pacific, say) were against it.
If I want to imagine the kind of guy you are talking about I just think of John Wayne Bobbit.
These GIs here are willing to walk on hot coals for the ladies they love. I do hope it turns out well for them, their brides, and all their families. And that the trouble they are having is just some jerk or two and not policy. Because if it is policy—again I challenge you, jJULIE or Lucy, to explain how it fits in with your notion that Bush is doing “great things.” Till you clarify a bit I have the idea that by great things you mean “killing lots of foreigners.” And “keeping America pure.”
A little late for that, but then I figure that part of American “greatness” is including the whole world on our national stage—every foreigner who makes a home here or freely admires us from their home overseas is our greatness and adds to our resources, moral and cultural—if we don’t steamroller the differences away that is. So even if the corny liberalism of “The South Pacific” is a bit naive, it is better to aspire to earning the love of people overseas than it is to call terrorizing them “greatness.”
We have to live with these people one way or another; Hitler had a different idea and you notice an interesting fact—he lost the war.
veteran, I agree with you in part. In the past, yes, many men found their warbrides to be more “docile”. But it is a common mistake in people in the US today to assume that Iraq is like Iran or other countries that are fundamentalist religious states.
For more than twenty years Iraq was a secular country (seperation of church and state and all that jazz). More than 50% of university students were women. Women in Iraq (prior to the war) earned EQUAL pay (something that has YET to be achieved here in the US).
Don’t assume that because a woman is Muslim she is submissive. There are as many variation within Islam as in Christianity.
I’m a brazilian journalist and I started my afternoon looking for a story about Mazen Dana’s death (Reuters cameraman) and ended up here. This story about two american soldiers converting so they could marry the iraq women they fell in love with is beyond amazing. As a journalist I will stay out of the going on discussion. I will just say to Mark: Thank you for what you have been writing! Period. Back to the soldiers. Please does anyone have a clue how I can get in touch with them? I’m in Săo Paulo, where I live and work as a free-lancer. I apreciate any help, any sugestion. Thank you very much!
Kety
As an American solider in Iraq, I can say that the perception that most soliders have of Iraq is shaped by what they have seen on CNN before they got down here, more than what they’ve actually seen here.
I would like to see something good come out of this backwards war, and if it’s these guys getting married, so be it.
For those interested in talking with American soliders (anonymous conditions, please) contact me and I will be more than happy to speak with you.
For Kety Shapazian:
I’m so glad that people from other countries visit this site. Please spread the word that the US is not COMPLETELY populated by fundamentalist, oligarchic, fascists.
For B:
If at all possible, please spread the word about this site to your fellow GIs. I for 1 would love to see posts about their thoughts and feelings, possitive or negative, about this “Vietnam II” that you guys have been sucked into - not to mention those in Afghanistan. This country seems to have forgotten about the 1st part of this war that our fearless leaders have yet to secure through their incompetence. Maybe with this technology we can prevent what happened to the GIs in SE Asia from happening to you guys.
I pray you and your team stay safe.
For Mark and other rational people:
Have you tried blogging at conservative sites like those that Lucy suggested? If so, is there intelligent life there or just fascist zombies roaming that part of cyberspace?
Just curious. I’d like to take it to them but it seems that when irrational people hear rational thought - even from their side of the aisle - they get all shrill and rudely interrupty.
It’s a shame really, ever since the Christian fundamentalists/extremists took over the party in the ’60s and ’70s republicans have become more unreasonable - I guess for the same reason Muslim fundamentalists/extremists (ANY religion for that matter) can’t be reasoned with either.
For B:
I was so busy with some work that i forgot to check out the blog. Can you help me please? I want to write about the two soldiers that got married. I want ppl to know there are other stories in Iraq besides war stories. You guys must have been going through hell there. I wish you all go back home soon. And safe. My email is kety@estadao.com.br I am a good reporter. I believe in ethics. I protect my sources. Talk to me, ok? Thank you!
There is a bit more to this story. The National Guardsmen were suppose to be out patroling when instead they were meeting with these two female Iraqi physicians. They even went so far as to get married while they were suppose to be out on patrol. This presents a serious security risk. If anything should happen from this case it should be the National Guardsmen should be punished for neglecting their duties. After it was discovered they were meeting these women on duty, their superior had forbid the soldiers to have further contact with them. They disobeyed and got married while on patrol. If these two wish to bring their new wives home with them in Jan. when their mission is over, I have no problem with that. I’m very glad they are happy. My only problem is that they neglected their duty and disobeyed orders. Why could they have no waited to marry before returning home? The women have received death threats from their own people since marrying these soldiers so are we responsible now to protect them?
Actually, yes. We are responsible to protect them. As the legal occupying power, the occupying troops have a legal obligation to protect ALL civilian Iraqis.
Okay, first of all I am an American combat soldier serving right in the heart of Baghdad. So when I speak for soldiers, I know what I’m talking about. Second, anyone who tries to compare this war to Vietnam obviously doesn’t know history too well. Vietnam was a completely different animal, nothing at all like the war in Iraq. Unlike Vietnam, we are fighting this war to win. Have no doubt, no matter where the enemy goes we will find them and destroy them. Be patient, give us soldiers in the military more time and pay more attention to all the good things we have already accomplished over here. The media loves to highlight the bad. Unfortunately soldiers die, that’s what we do. I can’t stand it when people keep talking about a quick pull out of Iraq and how we need to get the troops home before they all get killed… come on people, we have lost less then 500 soldiers out of more than 135,000 and people compare this post war period like its Vietnam were we lost 500 soldiers a week! Not quite the same thing. Anyway, if we pulled out now, we would be surrendering to a bunch of punks and we would lose all the progress we have accomplished, talk about a waste of lives. At least if we finished the mission, the way it should be done, the soldier’s families can look back and say that their sons and daughters didn’t die for nothing. Believe me, that does mean something to us and our families.
I believe in the good of the United States. I believe that the world isn’t as complicated as many people would like to make it. I have seen many, many poor and repressed people throughout the middle east and the balkans. If you asked them what they thought of the United States you would likely find that the majority support America what we are trying to do in the world. Look around, take a good look. Is there any other country in the world that helps other countries as much as we do? No there isn’t, plain and simple.
This is getting to be quite a long post. People, make sure that when you post something it is based on facts. For example, President Bush is responsible for 9/11. Give me a break. Facts are 9/11 was being planned since 1996 and the fact is the CIA was crippled under the Clinton administration. And people, how can you look yourself in the mirror and compare Republicans to islamic extremists, even the more right wing Republicans? Think about what you are saying. When was the last time a bunch of Republicans got together and crashed some planes into buildings or drove a car loaded with explosives in the Red Cross headquarters? Mark, what are you talking about when you said American soldiers had to use seized AK-47s for weapons because we didn’t have enough? I can guarantee you, never has an American soldier been in harms way when he hasn’t had a weapon of his own (American made) in Iraq. Like I said people, use facts, not some made up lies and propaganda.
Jeff
Wow, so for you 500 soldiers killed is not such a big deal since there are 135 thousand troops in Iraq. Tell this to their families when you go home.
I’m from Brazil and I’ve been to America about ten times. If you count how many times my family had been to your country the number might raise to 50. And boy! We were more than welcome because brazilians spend a lot of money in the United States: we only loose for the japanese tourists.
Now we rather go to hell because hehehe the devil will probably be nicer to us. You ask to look around. I look around and all I see is United States messing up with every single country that doesn’t follow their policy. Maybe it’s you that should learn more about history. Learn what happened in Chile in 1973 and who was behind all that bloodshed. Watch a movie called Missing, by Costa Gravas. Don’t forget the popcorn.
Since I’m not here to bother anyone I’ll give only one more example of the help United States give to other countries: guess who taught and trained the brazilian army and police to torture, back in the early 60’s?
You will probably ask why my family and I ever went to America. Because we always had a great time!!!!
Stay alive.
You people have lost your minds. I read what most of you said and as much as i hate to say it I have to agree with Jeff. My fiance is in Iraq now, and as much as i wish he could just drop it all and come home I know he can’t but years from now he will be able to tell our children what he did for us. I have enough faith in my soldiers to know he’s going to be coming home. I hope you all get your head out of your ass soon and realize America is doing what’s best for all of us. And when it’s over you’ll be glad it took place.
I HATE IRAQ THEY SUCK BALLS
Did somebody say balls
suck my balls john kerry
yes sir
Yo Yo Yo whats ur problem people!! Bush/Cheney made the biggest mistake!! why does america but into every countries problem? coz it thinks its so cool!! HELL NAW!!!Bush better bring our tropps back or the americans are gonna kick his ass!! as for kerry hmmmm forget him 4 now!! we loveour troops and want them back!!aight?? and bout that iraq/american marriage:that`s bull!! Americans want women that shut up and do what they are told,well they got what they wanted!! so long people for now!!
Whoever says they hate Iraqis they suck balls has obviously not been in the fucking country of Iraq. I just got out of Fallujah like three days ago and am now in Kuwait. You mother fuckers dont know what its like until you’re there. Iraqis as a whole are not bad people. Some are very educated, in fact probably more goddamn smart than you, and some are poor and in poverty. I dont know if I like or dislike the country but I sure do respect it and respect the people. Im in full support of those army soldiers marrying the Iraqi women. I wish them the best of luck and know that they will give those women a very nice life. And if anybody has to slander them or the Iraqis they truly are a piece of shit and need to join the service so they can endure a deployment in Iraq.
A year on, I’d like to know how they’re doing, and if they ever made it out.
John E.: I hope to hell you’re out and back, man. If not, keep your head down.
To all the others who want to rant and rave, and spew your bullshit about how “evil” the Iraqis supposedly are, you people are exactly the ones I utterly despise - you are nothing but useless filth, all too happy to wave your little flags and paste those goddamn pathetic “yellow ribbon bumper stickers” onto your Stupid Urban Vehicles.
This veteran of six years in the Marine Corps will tell you right now: you aren’t fooling any of us. We are waaaay too jaded to fall for your shit again. You bastards don’t give a crap about us, and you never have. Whenever you think that the danger has passed by, your attitude will once again become “Soldier’s and dogs - Keep Off The Grass!!”
This “war” was a giant raiding expedition to help Halliburton, et al, out of their economic mismanagement. Nothing more.
You fucking morons who thump your Bibles, praying to “JESUS!”™ to keep the eeeville “Islamas” away from you are the most pathetic, disturbed and disgusting wretches of all, since you patently refuse to see your own hypocracy and blasphemy.
You bastards are the ones out there praying for Armageddon to happen because you think that you are worthy of the Kingdom, and that if you just pray hard enough, GOD™ will “smite your enemies” for you — because you are too chicken-shit to do your own dirty work.
You are utterly and completely contempible.
BigMike
USMC, 84-90
Here! Here BigMike! ha! ha! HA! That was so bloody brilliant! And probably the most honest answer I’ve read about the war.
Alas, there seems to be a lack of intellectually stimulating debate from the pro-war mongers which really just proves how ridiculous this war is.