BAGHDAD—Almost one hour since the polls opened here, I've only heard one faint boom, and it was far away. So far, so good, knock on wood. I'll be heading out shortly after we've had our security guys make an assessment of the safety situation.
But one thing is different. Before, as a Westerner, I felt a bull's-eye on me whenever I left compound. Today, I think the kidnapping threat is less (the insurgents have better things to do today) so everyone on the street is a target. This gives me a feeling of solidarity and responsibility. If the Iraqis can go out there and risk their lives in the lines to vote, then the least I can do is the same to cover them doing it.
More later today as things develop. Let's hope the worries of violence prove overblown.
8:39:11 AM (All times local Baghdad time): We have our first suicide bombing outside a polling place in Mosul. No word yet on casualties. Explosions in the Green Zone, probably mortars. Police report a car bomb in west Baghdad, with some casualties.
9:34:37 AM So far, not as much violence as everybody feared. The question is why? Is the insurgency taking a pass on this one? (It's possible. Our sources in the insurgency say the election will make no difference to them, so why expend a lot of energy?) Is the insurgency much weaker than previously thought? Or is the level of security sufficient to keep it in check? If that's the case, then that is discouraging, too, because the measures that have kept today safe (so far) are truly draconian. No driving, dusk to dawn curfews, states of emergency. If that's what it takes to provide security in Iraq, why erase one police state only to replace it with another?
9:43:33 AM Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi just voted, and didn't even bother to put on a tie. Casual-vote Sunday?
10:40:11 AM Just got back from the local voting station in my 'hood, Karada, which is a heavily Shi'a neighborhood. The polling took place in the Muhammad Baqr al-Hakim High School, named for the former leader of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq. The security for the neighborhood is being handled by Iraqi Police, New Iraqi Army and Badr/SCIRI militiamen. And—quelle surprise!—the list topped by Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, the current leader of SCIRI and the brother of Muhammad Baqr al-Hakim, is the favored list. Almost everyone is voting for that one in this area. But for all that, there were a lot of women, and everyone looked happier than I've seen them in months.
There were no Americans in sight, except for the Apache choppers circling above.
This is a safe neighborhood and turnout seems pretty good. I can't speak for the other parts of the city or the country however, because despite assurances from the Ministry of Interior, press cars are being stopped at checkpoints and turned away. We're all walking today, looks like.
11:32:34 AM Four suicide bombings, all in west Baghdad. Seven dead and several wounded. We can't get to them because the bridges are blocked off and west Baghdad is on the other side of the Tigris River.
12:22:58 PM Sixth suicide bomb kills six people at a polling center in Baghdad. Unsure on where it is. Some of our other staff are our on the streets right now, and I'll be heading out again when they get back. (We only have so much security.)
12:29:48 PM Interesting. I'm watching CNN International, and the shots of long lines and happy voters are almost all coming from Iraqi Kurdistan where the voters are motivated and the environment is (relatively) safe. The rub is that CNNi is not identifying the images as coming from Kurdistan; the only way I knew it was from up north was the single shot of someone waving a Kurdish flag. But if you don't know what the flag looks like (red, white and green bars with a yellow starburst in the center), as I suspect most Americans don't, you wouldn't know the context of these images. Shi'ites are also coming out in droves in the south. But Sunnis are staying home. I will be surprised if the Sunni vote hits double digits at this point.
1:03:55 PM The Iraqi Army and Police have been very polite and even friendly at the polling stations, but several reporters have been shot at as they go about in their cars. (Which is why I'm walking around as soon as my security guys get back.)
1:15:38 PM Nine suicide bombs in Baghdad alone, with at least 20 dead. A bomb went off near the home of the Justice Minister. There are a number of outgoing mortars from my neighborhood in the last 10 minutes.
4:56:55 PM Just got back from a couple of polling stations. Things have gone very smoothly, all things considered. Everyone out on the streets is happy, even the Iraqi security forces who will laugh and joke with journalists—the first time they've done it in months. I saw one American convoy patrolling around, but that was it. A few American choppers. But the promise to put the Iraqis front and center seemed to have been kept.
Interesting results from the two polling places I to: the Al-Amil Primary School and the Arabiya Preschool. Almost everyone voting is Shi'a, and the rush came around mid-day. By 2 p.m. when I was out, there weren't a lot of voters. Most people are voting for Sistani's list, No. 169, but a significant portion of women are voting for Allawi. They worry about the influence of the religious parties such as SCIRI and Dawa, which dominate No. 169.
The men, however, all voted for No. 169, because they felt it represented them and the people on it would act in the best interests of Iraq. Also because of the tacit support of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. “It's a patriotic list and it has the support of the marjariya,” said Hamid al-Mousawi, 39, an agricultural engineer. His six-year-old daughter, Abrar, also said she supported the Sistani list and said her father voting was “good” and that she wants to vote, too, when she's old enough. One word: adorable.
“It's the first time for the Iraqis to express their opinions,” her father said. “It's the greatest national eid (holiday) for us.”
“It's the future, in one word,” said Abdel Karim Ahmed, 51, an agent for the Ministry of Trade in charge of distributing food under the ration-card system. “We are going to elect who will represent us in the National Assembly.”
He declined to say who he was supporting, saying it was a secret ballot, which was completely understandable. But he did say he would waiting anxiously to see who if his list would get seats in the Assembly.
The polling stations were housed in schools, by and large, and several rooms were taken over for the balloting. In each, the cardboard screens were held together with red tape, and then the ballot was dropped in those plastic bins you see on television. The ones I saw were all about three-quarters full.
It was a marked departure from Iraq's elections in the past, which Saddam won handily, of course.
“I feel like a free man,” said Muhammad Abad al-Badawi, a shopkeeper who had just finished voting. “For the last 35 years, we were electing nothing. They were fake elections.” He's supporting Allawi, “because he's a decent man” and he will fix the security situation.
But I have to say, it seems like he's already fixed it, at least for today. Today's highly restrictive measures are untenable, of course, and no one can live like this for long, but for a day, the insurgency was kept at bay.
Which is why, several of us journalists here are going to call this elections for the Iraqis. My friend Mitch and I were discussing this and regardless of who wins in the polls, the Iraqis won here and proved themselves—for a day, at least—stronger than the insurgency. And that's a very big symbolic victory. A huge one, in fact, and Iraqis should take great pride in themselves. When they had the opportunity, they stood up and were counted. The real losers were the Sunnis who didn't participate. They missed a golden opportunity to take part in a process that, while flawed, were the only game in town. I don't know what's going to happen next, and a civil war may still erupt, but if it does, the elected government—one elected by Shi'a and Kurds, for the most part—will have the moral high ground in it.
Dear Chris,
I do hope you have a safe day in iraq as the election gets underway. I will be looking forward to hearing your reports from the scene.
Will you be giving hourly reports of the events that are happening throughout the day?
Thanks again Keep up the good work
Flash
Just wanted to thank you for your reporting of the day’s events.
Good luck to all Iraqi’s and remember…there is strength in numbers. Your votes will show this.
chris,
I commend your efforts. Does the average Iraqi credit the United States for this historic election? Do you feel the Americans have been successful in winning Iraqi public opinion?
dave
Thank you for your efforts! —much appreciated.
Damn, Chris, this is great stuff.
Keep it up, as long as you can stay safe. Thanks!
this iraqi doesn’t. historic elections? perhaps for the revisionist history writers in the pentagon, better known as the neocons. even though feith has resigned so that they can cover up the foul role of his and others in creating this mess, cambone is deep on the bench.
maybe in a hundred years iraq will have historic elections.
peace, liminal
Ditto…to all the above. I’m linking your site to mine and to as many others as I can. This is so important. Everyone here in the US should fully realize the significance of this day and what it cost to get here.
Chris,
Thank you for these invaluable updates.
Why would CNN International do that? Is it deliberate deception, or is that the only thing they have to show?
James Earl
Hi, James— I’ve found that most shortcomings in broadcast media can be explained by sloppiness and incompetence, not maliciousness or conspiracy. I suspect it was all the footage they had of big lines and they just forgot to put the dateline on it. They’ve been making stupid mistakes all morning, such as showing Ibrahim al-Jafari, one of Iraq’s vice presidents, and saying he was Tahar al-Hashimi, Allawi’s spokesman.
On the part of CNN : it’s showing the Americans what they want to see. If it was serious and honnest journalism, they should tell where the footage was made and call attention to the fact it isn’t representative of what could be going on in the rest of Iraq
Concerning the security situation, one can only be glad it has not been as bad as one may have feared.
To the possible reasons mentionned by Christopher, I’d add another one :
The goal of the insurgents was to intimidate the Iraqis, preventing them to vote. This has already been achieved during the past week. However blowing up many of them on the election day could backfire : who will ever gain supporters in blowing up hundreds of peaceful citizens ?
Also : the actual government and the US military could retain informations on such events, fearing that they could have a bad effect on the turnout.
I do rather lean for the first explanation.
Chris,
You have been very pessimistic in your blogs. But I sense that just under your skin joy is building up.
I believe that the will of the Iraqi people will come across strong today. A message will be sent to the leaders of the insurgents and the world. Iraq will not tolerate being bullied anymore.
Dumbasses. He’s just reporting the wires. There have been far more attacks then reported.
A journalist
DUBAI, Jan 30 (Reuters) - Al Qaeda’s Iraqi group said it was
behind seven attacks on polling stations and U.S. forces in
Iraq’s northern city of Mosul on Sunday, according to an
Internet statement.
Iraq have carried out several attacks in Mosul,” the statement
said and listed five attacks on polling centres and two on U.S.
military vehicles.
in a minibus carrying Iraqis to vote in a town south of Baghdad
on Sunday, killing three people and wounding 13, according to
the Polish military which is in charge of security in the area.
voters on Sunday, but Iraqis still voted in large numbers.
Duh states there have been more attacks than have been reported on the wires.
And to support this he lists two reports that have come over the wires.
Journalist or Dumbass?
Keep it coming Chris.
Any election darkened by violence or corruptions dishonors all who love freedom.
That’s why I’m happy for Iraq this day.
And more — I do not think the Bushies’ project in the Middle East can long survive a truly free and representative government in Iraq.
Ask yourself - Do a majority of Iraqis favor inviting the American soldiers to stick around, or plan on voting for representation that would extend such an invitation?
I find it interresting that all the networks here in the US were (and still are) widely reporting a 72% voter turnout 45 minutes before the polls closed. No attribution on who’s making the call….maybe a psychic, but everyone’s using the figure.
“Why would CNN International do that?”
Never heard of propaganda? They aren’t paid to tell the Truth, they’re paid to tell what they wish was true, in hopes that it might become true…
chris , you seem to have a nack of getting high on your own rehoteric /baseless assumptions. { a goverment - one elected by shi’a and kurds , for the most part - will have the moral high ground }What with 150,000 American liberatores still around eager to liberate even more Iraqis, last figure by the Lancet was about 100.000 to i90.ooo. But hey who is counting you found a higher ground to look forward to. thanks for that.
Well, yay elections, but I’d be happier to see headlines about Iraq getting better security forces.
An email yesterday from my friend Ahmed in Diwaniya says:
…I am so happy for elections. In diwanya it is ideal zone for it so safe many police men in the street & all people like to do it Islamic Communists, & all ….
the safety plan in the city is so hard today we must be in the hose at 2:00 noon.
it is OK. I hope the do that in all of Iraqi city’s….
I still dream about free safe great Iraq.in future.
yester day I was talking with my brother (he was don’t like the war of Us with Saddam) he say at end …i think American do good things to Iraq future..because he see many people now feel free …..&there is new idea about people like Communist now thy are free…now any one can talk …& anther one can say your talk is right or wrong…without jails or kill…
(I think because my brother see diwanya street every day)
OK, it’s just one anecdotal voice from a relatively peaceful Shi’ite city, but to me it says a lot when someone who didn’t trust the US comes around to saying that he feels things have changed for the better.
To characterize this vote as a battle between the insurgency and the voters is silly. This was the same propaganda scam the US used with the Afganistan vote, where there was little violence - providing an opportunity for the US to crow about how the rebels there were prevented from disrupting the elections. This is just more of the same news manipulation .
The Sunnis were virtually disenfranchised by deliberate US efforts to make voting there impossible. Are we to believe that the guerrillas goal is to kill voter citizens? That the Sunni insurgents would want to harm their own people. Chris has become a puppet mouthpiece for US propaganda. That’s was being in-bedded is all about.
For God’s sake, I’m not embedded. God forbid I actually look at what’s happening on the ground, do some reporting and come to a conclusion that doesn’t fit into your pre-conceived world-view.
I’m with you and thank you deeply for keeping us informed, Chris…I’m really proud of the Iraqi people who have suffered so very greatly in so many ways we US citizens can not even imagine… and I’m very ashamed of, and saddened by this administration and the US news “journalists’ who continue their sloppy, lazy “balanced” reporting. Glad there are still some real journalists out there doing the work and finding the avenues to disseminate it. Thank you!
An election where the majority of the candidates are unknown to the voters until election day, to me, does not signify democracy at work. More like a secret campaign to pull the wool over people’s eyes.
The Red States Talking Points on this election are just as hilarious as they were on WMD and the rest of the truth/lies about Iraq. Red State Americans were peeing all over themselves with joy at the images on CNN (Crap [BS] News Network).
Chris, I’m glad, as always, that you report and are safe. But tell me, do you really believe this election matters, for anything other than a “show?” The whole point of this election is to get someone other than the U.S. to sign off on contracts between Iraq and large companies that are waiting to do business there. Just how are these elections benefiting the ordinary Iraqi?
“So far, not as much violence as everybody feared. The question is why? “
Terrorism as a tactic relies on the terrorist ability to choose the time an place of the attack. Terrorist carry out attacks against a handful of individuals randomly selected out of population of millions. They can careful pick the time and place of their attack. If conditions for the attack are not good they just choose another time or place
The anti-terrorist forces can never force the terrorist to stand and fight at one particular place and time. This effect is what gives terrorist their illusion of omnipresence and invincibility.
The conditions of the election, however, caused the terrorist to have to attack at specific places and specific times. They had to attack the polling places on election day. They lost all their military advantage. Attacking the polling places would have been ineffective suicide and they knew it.
I suspect they will make an appearance in the next week or so by murdering people for having ink stains on their fingers. With an apparent 70% voter turnout they should have plenty targets of opportunity.
WHO CAN DESTROYED INSURGENTS ? NOBODY. 30000 INSURGENTS WILL ATTACK EVERY DAY.ELECTION IS NOTHING. US AND BRITISH GO HOME, SAVE YOUR LIFES AND GO.
CarrieCann,
” Just how are these elections benefiting the ordinary Iraqi?”
I’ve got a radical idea. Why don’t ask an Iraqi? You should be able to locate an expatriate Iraqi in realspace or you could log onto one of the thousands of Iraqi blogs.
Of course, bear in mind that Iraqis aren’t as smart as you (the vast majority of people aren’t I am sure you will agree) so they probably won’t understand when you try to explain to them what a pointless endeavor their voting was.
For example, they may try to point out that whatever the future holds, any subsequent government will have hold some kind of elections even if it only the high school type they have in Iran. The end of the unrestricted dictatorship in Iraq is over.
You, being soooooo much smarter than those idiot Iraqi will of course be able to explain to them why risking their lives to vote was ever so pointless.
QQ,
“WHO CAN DESTROYED INSURGENTS?”
The Iraqi people. They took a big step in doing so today.
They proved the “insurgents” are nothing but talk. When the Iraqi people face them down, they crumple.
If the “new” government (probably a recycled edition of the same old puppets) doesn’t quickly move to set a timetable for US withdrawal, the Sistani’s support will move to Sadr, who has kept his options open.
The US occupation is hated by the vast majority of Arab Sunni and Shia. Anyone with eyes who isn’t a lying ignorant Rethug knows it.
The only grouping that doesn’t hate us (yet) is the Kurds, and they will only tolerate us as long as we don’t mess with their defacto independence. If we do that, the Kurds will quickly remember the betrayal of 1991 and the Reagan-era US tilt in support of Saddam (Rethugs never mention that “he gassed his own people” when he was getting US support).
Of course if you live in Bush fantasyland, everything is fine.
I am grateful that the violence was kept to a minimum and that the Iraqi people were not dissuaded from their optimisim, hope, and thirst for freedom.
Ali at the Free Iraqi Blog wrote yesterday:
“Tomorrow I and the Iraqis that are going to vote will rule, not the politicians we’re going to vote for, as it’s our decision and they’ll work for us this time and if we don’t like them we’ll kick them out! Tomorrow my heart will race my hand to the box. “
I think that Ali’s heart is very pleased today!
You can also find a repository of related Iraqi Election information and news here.
Iraq Election Facts, Military Blogs and News on the Ground
Dear Shannon: I do hope your mouth is ok. That “tongue in cheek” action must have really hurt!
Christopher, I appreciate the courage you exhibit by reporting on the elections in Iraq. But I fear you’re misinterpreting necessary security for the purposes of safety for the Iraqi people during these elections so that they can enjoy the freedoms in Iraq’s future you noted as being absent yesterday.
I am certain that you’ll find PajamaHadin’s http://profile.typekey.com/PajamaHadin
response to your remarks are indicative of the feelings of the majority of Iraqi’s.
It’s ignorant to to compare the security forces in Iraq today with the police state of Saddam Hussein. The Iraqi people are’nt fearful of the security forces as they were of Saddam’s henchmen because they’re not getting dragged into torture cells and rape rooms. They’re fearful of the terrorists the security forces are protecting them from and are grateful for thyeir presence.
Furthermore, it’s irresponsibly premature to compare freedom in Iraq with that of established democracies. Democracies take time and personal sacrifice by its citizenry.
Look at the hundreds of thousands of Americans who died just to establish our democracy and the hundreds of thousands more who have died to preserve it. Look at the seven years it took to stabilize Germany and the ten years it took to stabilize Japan after WWII. So keep your pants on, man.
I applaud your commitment to reporting. You’re inability to see the larger picture and provide intelligent analysis is less than impressive. Perhaps your police state analogy is an indicator of your own political persuasion and agenda.
You mention the moral high ground. I don’t know that any of the active groups in Iraq can claim moral high ground, but some are clearly higher than others.
When your game plan is murdering civilians, I’d have to say you’re pretty much conceding the moral high ground.
I gather this is about power in the Post-Occupation Iraq. If it were just about getting the US out, they would join together and participate in these elections, flawed as they might be, in order to hasten the day.
What kind of horrors are the Sunnis expecting from the Shiites that the tactics they are using seem reasonable?
Shannon Love: Iraqi bloggers are less than 100, and do not number in the thousands.
Chris,
Might be a naive question, but I’m curious: is there any slate of candidates, and I realize the limitations here, that is considered genuinely Western and “liberal” by Iraqi standards? Like I said, just curious, and I realize the answer isn’t a simple on in light of “secret” candidates and the like. Just wondering how “diverse” the ballot is. Is there a Haight-Ashbury ticket? And you know what I’m saying. By Iraqi standards.
Peace.
This is a good step forward. The question is: now what?
I remember big promises at “mission accomplished” and also at “transfer of Iraqi sovereignty,” and yet the insurgency only grew stronger.
The people who make up the insurgency (pissed off Sunnis, Islamic theocrats, and people who hate America for a variety of reasons) are not going to stop. Some people who hate America may drop out, but I see their lack of participation easily being replaced and extended by Sunnis and Islamic theocrats for whom the threat of defeat has increased.
On the other side, perhaps these elections will give the peopel who support the new government of Iraq something tangible to fight for. They did risk their lives to vote. Here’s to hoping. But nonetheless the will of the insurgency has been far far greater then the Shia and Kurds. I suppose time will tell now.
Today’s commentary by some who post here, and elsewhere, is strange. I’ve been ambivalent about this whole escapade since day #1, and pretty much have decided I’m not smart enough to make declarations about things still in a formative stage, still fluid, still “developing” (as they say in the press). Advanced degree, 40 years of adult life and voting and reading and thinking notwithstanding —- this is kind of new ground for me —- and you, too.
What I find a bit irksome (to be frank about it), is the “yes, but-ism” that just goes on and on and seems not able to accept anything at face value. It can’t just say, “this is apparently a good thing, let’s see what happens next”. Instead, it’s all preachy about how things are being hidden from us, media manipulated, planning is absent, the opposition is playing possum, voters don’t know the candidates, etc. I haven’t yet seen allegations of Rove being responsible for the illegitimate election results, but that’s probably on the next website I visit.
Here is what I DO know, or think I do anyway:
(1) Elections happened, and pretty impressively at that.
(2) 275 elected individuals will work on a constitution, and pick some interim leaders
(3) The constitution will be subject to a referendum.
and…
(4) Some of us, so bright and informed, feel compelled to yip and yap like a poorly trained Pekinese dog, around the ankles of those who are participating in this (what is it?) adventure, experiment, revolution, declaration … whatever term pleases you.
You know what? IF the US vision (apart from its flawed tactics) is as screwed up as some would have us believe, and IF the process inside Iraq so distorted, and IF the “cause” is so infected with rot, and the leaders so corrupted —- then there will be plenty of opportunities to discern that. So just stop screaching and whining for a while —- and LISTEN and OBSERVE. Please. Understand that the wisest people are not always talking.
The danger in this indiscriminate doomsaying and discrediting is this: It comes across as just plain “out of touch” when not modulated and timed appropriately, and therefore makes the left sound increasingly disconnected.
Chris,
Thank you so much for this blog. While it’s good to get news from the wires to get an overall picture, it’s even better when there’s a real, objective person on the ground whom you can identify as being honest and trustworthy. You put a face on this sort of news in more than a few ways, be it quoting interesting, real Iraqis or just generally noting the feeling in the air.
Thanks! :)
9,000 voting places … I was thinking, even when the bad guys are doing their best, how many car bombs in one day? A half dozen? So, under the best of conditions (an oxymoron), how many voting places could they have attacked? A hundred? That’s .01% of the total targets. And 8,900 voting places remaining safe. So again, terrorism works in creating a perceived threat much larger than any possible.
For what it’s worth, debka.com, who is apparently in touch with their spies in Iraq, is saying that the Kurds bused in no fewer than 50,000 of their AK-wielding cousins over the borders to take part in (or take over) the Kirkuk poll… 50 THOUSAND…. Any comments?
I don’t think the Sunnis lost the moral high ground — after all, whose the judge of these things — but they certainly have floundered tactically. Of course, the ethnic cleansing that is the daily task of the Americans, and Allawi’s approval of the most brutal methods to send a message to the revanchist current in the Shi’a culture, has made it difficult for that community to respond. Still, boycotting the elections rather than negotiating the election process — extending the voting in Sunni areas for a week or two, as even Allawi proposed — was a mistake.
But the interesting thing to me is whether, fresh from successfully voting, the Iraqi population will have an even stronger sense that it is time for the occupiers to pick a time line and go. After all, they haven’t provided security or infrastructure, and when push came to shove, the majority of Iraqis were able to put together an election day by themselves. It would be nice if this means bye bye Americans. I mean, it rather takes the justification out of the occupation, no?
oops - who’s, not whose. Sorry.
Chris, Yes. I have a pre-conceived view that is shared by a few of of still in the reality based community, like Sey Hersch, who have yet to be abducted by the bodysnatchers.
To say that the insurgency was kept at bay for one day fits in nicely with the tsunami of insufferable corporate media bullshit that we will have to wallow in for the next week greased by US greenbacks from duped US taxpayers.
The insurgency has been more active because it is winning, not because of the elections. With over a hundred guerilla attacks per day and a handful of poll-related incident the insurgency has better things to do that fuss about a phoney election. The occupiers are in control of the ballots and the word is that the results might not be out for a few weeks, which is just about enough time to get things rigged and hide the evidence. The US was effective in virtually disenfranchising the Sunnis as planned, while Fallujah was ostensibly attacked to insure the people’s ability to vote.
We all weren’t born yesterday. Your reporting on the ground is daring and of high calibre, but your child emperor-friendly editorializing is hard to swollow. Overall, you doing a spectacular job and we all appreciate your willingness to take great risk to get out the story.
The Bush Administration is claiming victory because of the speculated size of participation in Iraq’s election. It occurs to me that the number participants may very well reflect the depth of Iraqi despair. In other words their participation in the face of danger may well be an expression of their bitter disappointment with lack of security, potable water, an electrial grid and oil infrastructure that has yet to gain even pre-occupation levels.
Indeed, one of the great ironies here is that Iraqi participation may have resulted from the desire of the rank and file Iraqi to get the US out of Iraq as soon as possible.
Unfortunately, the US is not going to leave for a good long while. More than $35 billion US has been committed to repairing infrastructure which includes slightly more than $18 billion from the US. However, to date only $2.1 billion has been spent, and that mostly for security.
Since the 62 largest campaign contributors to the RNC have contracs with the US government to provide services in Iraq, it’s not likely US troops are going to leave for a long time. They have to protect the contractors.
While certainly one can anticipate the Iraqi participation was driven by an interest to feel they will exercise control over their government in the future, I wonder if practical necessity rather than philosophy compelled them to face danger to go to the polls. Chris, what are the Iraqi people immediately trying to accomplish?
My concern is that Iran is part of Bush’s “Axis of Evil” and his has made point blank warnings/threats to Syria. At the same time, Bush has something of a messianic self impression, called upon by God to spread democracy; and my fear of “his” victory is likely to expand US hegemeny in the region.
Whether this was a historic day for Iraqis will obviously have to be decided by them, and not by the US. But in the meantime, I’d like to know how Iraqis view the election from a practical point of view.
Any information on this Chris. And incidentally, I think you’re doing a very good job.
I hope everything is going well and peachy.
I’m going to wait a few days, or even a few weeks, for full reports to leak out so claims can be compared.
After the past few years of, well, everything, I’ve learned to mistrust most of what gets passed off as unassailable fact in the mainstream media.
I can hope that things go well and everything gets better. I have this sick feeling in my gut, based on past performances, that not only will this not happen, but many will be lied to about it by the people they place in power over them—in the US, in Canada, in Iraq, everywhere.
Chris,
I drove around with Army ID in Abu Gharib. Two polling stations were closed just 2 days before without any notice to the locals. There are ZERO signs of any elections. No posters or billboards. Since people can not drive I don’t know where these people were going to vote. I counted 13 IED till about 10 am….then I gave up as they never seem to stop exploding. They were also sending rockets into the prison. Not sure if any landed but till about 8 pm that I stayed out we counted many going in.
I was surprised to hear the election went as well as reported. I just wonder how people in Abu Gharib (mostly Shiite) feel about the whole thing. At least one young man (21 years old) said he is afraid of voting. He had to leave school in Baghdad to run a shack to make money for his family in Abu Gharib. I felt these people were very disconnected with the rest of Baghdad and terrorized since the roads around their homes are always full of IEDs. Obviously many of the people in their neighborhood plant these IEDs.
Desperately trying to leave camp Liberty - Ramin
Chris,
Good commentary - all except your morning bleat about “replacing one police state with another”.
Don’t you think there’s a qualitative difference between a curfew imposed to protect a ruling thug-ocracy from overthrow at the hands of the people, and a curfew imposed to keep a bunch of murdering lunatics from self-detonating in crowds of women and children?
By your logic, it is the mechanism that is bad, not the reason for which it is employed. Under this argument, police officers shouldn’t carry guns because criminals use them too. Sorry, pal, but that’s typical libral moral relativism.
But as for the rest of your coverage - well done.
Chris,
Good commentary - all except your morning bleat about “replacing one police state with another”.
Don’t you think there’s a qualitative difference between a curfew imposed to protect a ruling thug-ocracy from overthrow at the hands of the people, and a curfew imposed to keep a bunch of murdering lunatics from self-detonating in crowds of women and children?
By your logic, it is the mechanism that is bad, not the reason for which it is employed. Under this argument, police officers shouldn’t carry guns because criminals use them too. Sorry, pal, but that’s typical liberal moral relativism.
But as for the rest of your coverage - well done.
I think Iraqi voted in masse because they felt they could weight on their future.
I think they are very lucky, a few month ago history could have turn differently, the big idea was to have a US protectorate with some con man has prime minister.
Birdbrainer,
Allawi has already extended marshall law beyond the upcoming sunset date through February. All Allawi has to do it Is state that the the emergency is ongoing, and it can be extended every thirty days ad infinitum, creating the phoney illusion that it is time-limited when it really isn’t. The declaration of an emergency permits arrests without probabe cause or timely hearings.
Use of colored Nazi-style identification tags has been adopted by the occupiers to humiliated and oppress. Mosques have been targets and destroyed.
The suspension of basic human rights with indefinite detentions and widespread torture is right up there with Saddam and Stalin. Saddam gassed 100,000 and Bush blew the same number to pieces with munitions. In Fallujah Bush left the wounded to die in their collapsed homes and prevented the Red Crescent from entering the city. Who has been more brutal? Bush or Saddam?
Peter, I think it’s offensive to equate the US’s tactics with those of Saddam and Stalin. You can be against Bush, against the invasion and occupation, but it’s simply ignorant and weakens your argument to make the claim that there’s no difference between life under Saddam and life in Iraq today. Ask yourself how many of the Shi’ites or Kurds would really prefer to go back to Saddam’s time right now.
War is hell, as the cliche goes, and the US army has proved not much more humanitarian than average in its waging of it at the height of hostilities, in Falluga and Najaf, for example. But the “bread and butter” missions that attempt to provide security throughout the country, work on reconstruction projects and meet with NAC and DAC representative groups are anything but brownshirt bullying. I spent over 10 months in Iraq, embedded and not embedded, and went on countless patrols and missions. What I saw were energetic soldiers and officers trying to do their best and be respectful. Sometimes they did well and sometimes they didn’t. I didn’t think I could have done any better in their shoes.
Whether their efforts ultimately prove successful will depend on a lot of things, and perhaps time will tell that this war was a foolish and deadly risk. Or perhaps not. But don’t cheapen your argument by making spurious comparisons between the US’s occupation and fascist regimes.
Zipo sed:
It’s ignorant to to compare the security forces in Iraq today with the police state of Saddam Hussein. The Iraqi people are’nt fearful of the security forces as they were of Saddam’s henchmen because they’re not getting dragged into torture cells and rape rooms. They’re fearful of the terrorists the security forces are protecting them from and are grateful for thyeir presence.
According to the Iraqi Minister for Human Rights himself, this is exactly incorrect. Rape and torture continues apace:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=3&u=/nm/20050125/tsnm/iraqrights_dc
“raqi Human Rights Minister Bakhtiar Amin told Reuters in an interview he acknowledged that abuses had occurred and said it would take time for Iraqi forces to change their behavior after decades of dictatorship under Saddam.
“The Iraqi security forces have their shortcomings,” Amin said, adding that this was partly due to the legacy of “three and a half decades of dictatorship, widespread torture and human rights violations.”
Human Rights Watch said it interviewed 90 Iraqi prisoners between July and October last year, just after the government of interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi assumed power from the U.S.-led forces which toppled Saddam.
Seventy-two said they had been tortured or mistreated. “
Let’s not get carried away here. I saw nothing surprising yesterday: Shia voted, Kurdish voted, Sunni did not. Some violence occurred, but as someone else noted, terrorist attacks are usually less than expected on days where they are expected. Baghdad cannot function if driving is banned and the bridges are closed every day.
Mr. Baldwin, I agree with Steve Mumford on what he said about your post. I’m not going to repost anything that’s already been said. Get a grip.
Also, to the anonymous poster at 01:36 AM on 1/31/05….very well said my friend.
Well Kevin, I hope you and Steve end up spending a few months in Alberto Gonsalves basement. I was wrong to compare Bush to Stalin; I should have used Bush’s idol - Adolf. But at least Adolf could write a book - Mein Kampf - all Bush could do is read “My Little Goat.” He doesn’t even read the paper.
Adolf, huh? You’re comparing Bush to a man who was a big fan of ethnic cleansing? Riiiiight….
I’m not a big fan of our President, but comparing him to Stalin and Hitler on any level is a bit much.
While you may find it offensive to compare Bushist tactics with Saddam’s, there are many parallels.
As for Iraqis no longer being dragged into rape or tiorture rooms - what planet are you living on? Can you say “Abu Ghraib”?
Dear oh dear……
A bit much?
Let’s see:
Hitler used an ‘attack on the homeland’ to introduce draconian security measures.
Who else did that?
Hitler invaded on false pretences.
Who else did that?
Stalin locked people up without trial.
Who else did that?
No one claims they are the same thing but there are many parallels.
Be offended if you like but to claim there is no comparison is ignorant.
Bear in mind that the coalition have been killing Iraqis at a faster rate than Saddam did too.
Kevin,
What do you call the razing of Fallujah? No males allowed to leave, pen everyone in, and bring in the heavy artillery to anniahlate the Sunnis. Bush is just getting warmed up . At this atage of the game Bush is necking out Hitler for atrocities.
I must say the comment about Bush necking out Hitler on atrocities gave me a good laugh. Are you listening to yourself? Hitler was responsible for one of the biggest atrocities of mankind: He tried to eliminate a group of people based on their religion. Bush is doing no such thing, as weird as it is trying to defend the man. Is he targeting specifically Sunnis to wipe them out? No. Shi’a? No. Buddhists? No. Jedi? No. Maybe I’m too willing to believe the good in everyone, but I don’t see evidence that the government is trying to wipe a certain peoples out based on religion like Hitler did. How about we release those held in Cuba into your backyard? You think they’ll be nice to you because you supported their release? I doubt it. They’ll probably want to slit your throat b/c you’re an American. I don’t condone how some prisoners are treated, but if the roles were reversed, I doubt they would treat any of us any better. All I can say is if you were picked up playing for the wrong team, you better be able to explain yourself.
Fallujah was full of insurgents. A large number of insurgents are Sunni’s due to the fact that Saddam was a Sunni, therefore a large number are loyal to him for some reason. That’s the way it is. I seriously doubt the administration invaded Fallujah for the sole purpose of “annihilating” Sunni’s as you say.
If it comes out that the only reason that we went into Iraq was for oil and Bush was killing Muslims because they were Muslims, then I’ll give you and some anonymous posters credit for it. Otherwise stop being so ready to believe in conspiracy theories. I don’t trust the government or media, other than someone like Chris who is there and will tell things like it is rather than put whatever spin on it that they see fit a la CNN and FoxNews. I try to take things at face value. If one reads into things too much and overanalyzes, one will go crazy.
Kevin and what about freedom ? Iraqi people must be happy with occupants behind them ?
What about lies about WMD. What about most horrible regime in North Korea that is safe.
I understand that attacking someone without any dangerous weapons and poor army is better than eliminating real threats.