A while back, I mentioned that I would post the full al-Sharq interview with General Muhammad Abdullah Shahwani, Iraq's intelligence chief, from Jan. 4. I got snowed under by election deadlines—sorry about that—but here it is finally. More information on what the official line is on the insurgency. Shahwani's generally been a good source, and I'm inclined to believe a lot of what he says—mainly because it matches a lot of what I've gotten from other folks.
What is your opinion about the number of the armed fighters in Iraq?
Officially call them terrorists because they are doing terrorism against the people and they are outlaws. Their number is between 20,000, 30,000, in the whole of Iraq, distributed in the Sunni area. The people who live in this area emotionally support them, and they are about 200,000 without offering them money or logistic support. For example, they don't give any information about their activities if they have this information.
That means those 200,000 do not fight with the fighters?
It's impossible that the fighters' numbers reach 200,000. These are those who live in those areas where the fighters are active—for example the right side of Mosul is completely out of control—and in this area, the terrorist are very active without any information about them from the local people, and very often they offer them shelter (hospitality).
Are those fighters from one group or many different groups?
They are from the remnants of the Ba'ath Party, from Islamic extremists and others.
The Iraqis and Americans have claimed the Jordanian extremist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is behind this terrorism, but recently they've started pointing to the Ba'ath party and its leaders. Is there any changes or some new facts?
There are no changes, but the Ba'ath Party has been organized for a long time. What happened is they reorganized themselves and they are getting money and support from their leaders in Syria. Their operations are well-developed because or their large number, their experience and their financing ability.
How many Ba'athists are involved in the armed operations now?
I can't tell the exact number but we expect the Ba'athists before numbered two million and if we expect 20% of them are involved now that mean the number is very huge and all of them are well-organized and armed and some start working with them after they found themselves jobless. Most of them are from the former Iraqi army.
Who leads these organizations now?
As we know the Ba'ath Party divided into many parts, and now there are three wings, the most powerful wing, which belongs to the former regime, got a large quantity of money.
Who are those leaders?
There is Izzat al Douri, Mohammed Unis al Ahmed, who is moving between Syria and Iraq and Sabawi al Hassan and other Ba'ath leaders who live in Syria.
Do you think that there is foreigner or Arab support?
They don't need financial support. The Ba'ath Party, as you know, was the richest party in the world, and was gaining 5% from the oil benefits since 1970 for the party budget.
Has the Iraqi government asked the Syrian government to hand them over?
There have been such attempts, but there are no results so far.
But hasn't the Syrian government denied their existence in their territories?
No. We are sure that they are in Syria and they are moving easily between Syria and Iraq border,
Are there any other Ba'ath leaders?
There is a group that split itself from the former regime under the leadership of the Taih Abdul Karim and Naim Hadad and both working inside Iraq.
Did the American military operations in Fallujah lead to a decrease in terrorist operations?
It became less only in Fallujah.
And in the rest of Iraq?
In gangs war which acted by the terrorism groups we can't get the results as we get in the organized army war, or the traditional war. The goal from Fallujah operation was to destroy the terrorism gangs or to capture their members but the results in Fallujah we could not capture the terrorists or kill their leaders, we did not see or hear about capturing or killing any big leader of terrorism, all the leaders of the terrorism have left Fallujah before the operations started already.
And they went working in other sites or hiding outside Fallujah in each fight there is a goal and the goal of Fallujah operation was to destroy the terrorist and their leadership but the goal was not done actually in spite of the full controlling of Fallujah.
What are the sources of the armed group?
The Ba'ath Party, extremist Islamist organization like Ansar al-Sunna, Tawhid w'al-Jihad, Ansar al-Islam, the 1920 Revolution and other from these names and its reached about 12 groups.
All these groups you mentioned are Sunnis. Are there any Shi'ite groups?
The group of Moqtada al-Sadr was fighting just like the others before, but now there is no Shi'ite group carrying weapons against the government.
The statement of the Iraqi officials pointed to Iran and Syria consider them the two sources of supporting these operations, is there any changes in this subject?
I am personally did not notice any changes in their attitudes and the problems still coming from those two countries because the borders are open and the support is still coming in.
What are the effects of the armed operations on the elections process?
For sure there is a negative effects on the elections. Some of the Iraqi people will not be able to reach voting centers, and this will affect the election process.
What is the need for the intelligence system in a democratic regime?
There is no country in the whole world that has no intelligence system to protect the country and the people and monitoring the gangs like drug gangs and all other cases to stop them including all the cases that is related to the security of the country. Usually we observe and collect information to be delivered to the security forces so security forces can do its duties to protect the country.
Do you think that the armed operation will increase or decrease?
It depends on the election. We have to wait for the result and then we will see. As a security system we expect this kind of operations will decrease within one year.
What are the most unsecured areas in Iraq now?
Mistakenly, they call it the Sunni triangle, but there are other unsecured areas like Diyala, which has 50% of its population Shi'ite and also the north of Babylon, which is extended to reach Sowera and Salman Pak. All these areas are very difficult to reach, for example the area between Hadhar and Mosul its out of control and those armed group in the streets searching the people and also the area which extend from Sharqat down to Baiji and Samara. All these areas are unsecured in addition to Ramadi, Fallujah and its surrounding areas, while inside Baghdad there is Haifa street and Adhamiya and Dora and Ghazaliya and Airport road and all these areas are unsecured and dangerous and may God give those terrorists their punishment.
Hey there Buckaroo,
You hang in there as long as it is relatively safe. We would rather have you than the story.
This interview sounds a bit like musical chairs. If anyone gets up, someone else will take his/her place. This does not have the ring of security to it.
Yes, they say, 14 of 18 provinces are peaceful, but how in the heck do you get there. And I’m not at all sure of their numbers. Frankly I’m beginning to doubt everything they say and I was never like that and don’t much like the change.
Be safe Chris
Connie
I am just wondering what happend to behaedings and kidnappings? nobody hears about them anymore. also what is going on in Falujja? since the offensive is over we don’t hear a thing.
The 200,000 figure doesn’t come from the al-Sharq interview but from an interview with General Shahwani put out by AFP. Passages quoted in the Times make it quite clear this is a different interview, eg.
“I think the resistance is bigger than the US military in Iraq. I think the resistance is more than 200,000 people,” General Muhammad Abdullah Shahwani, director of Iraq’s new intelligence services, said.
[…]
“People are fed up after two years without improvement,” he said. “People are fed up with no security, no electricity, people feel they have to do something. The army (dissolved by the American occupation authority) was hundreds of thousands. You’d expect some veterans would join with their relatives, each one has sons and brothers.”
(Click my name below for link)
Where does that appear in al-Sharq? Did the Times simply make it up? No. It’s a different interview and the General DID refer to the 200,00 figure you dispute.
I think you are flogging a dead horse here Chris.
Uh, Ron, you seem to have left out some other paragraphs in that story you linked, such as:
“General Shahwani said that there were at least 40,000 hardcore fighters attacking US and Iraqi troops, with the bulk made up of part-time guerrillas and volunteers providing logistical support, information, shelter and money.”
And the dek of the piece says “…there are more than 200,000 fighters”, and the next sentence says “…insurgency numbers 200,000 fighters and active supporters”. I don’t think the article is clear enough in any direction to draw any certainty from. But I get the impression you’ve long ago drawn a conclusion on all of this, so you read it clearly the way you want.
The point, Todd, is that it is a different interview with Gen Shahwani from the one Chris kindly reproduces, and not a case of accidental or deliberate mistranslation of the Generals words. Of that I am certain. As to which interview most accurately describes the size of the resistance, I’ve made no conclusions at all.
Thank you for the whole interview.
Robert Fisk wrote a piece saying that there are very few journalist who are conducting their work in a good way (which should be the only way) So I was wondering how you are doing?
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0117-24.htm
well
always the same story
those who do the war against americans are saddam hussein’s friends
but i think the iraki are just angrys
angry that america decides instead than they decide
USA places some irakis of their own on key political sites and iraki do not agree
what a surprise!
do iraki want that their oil to be ruled by
american companies?
not sure
Good call Arjan.
Robert Fisk explains very clearly why there is no news from Fallujah ” since the offensive is over”. Robinson - check out some more reporting from Fisk (http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01142005.html) - the fighting continues daily in Fallujah. It’s just that it’s not safe enough for anyone go there independently and report. That’s the reason why we don’t hear about it.
Any thoughts, Chris?
Sorry, that link didn’t work - try again…
http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk01142005.html
And while we’re on the subject of dubious information, the one thing we can be sure about is that the size of the insurgency is far greater than we have been told by the US military and politicians for months and months. But that surely must have been becoming very clear to everyone for a long time.
Well I found the answer to this question to a point;
Q.Do you think that the armed operation will increase or decrease?
A. It depends on the election. We have to wait for the result and then we will see. As a security system we expect this kind of operations will decrease within one year.
………………………………
As far as I know those words of
General Muhammad Abdullah Shahwani
won’t be picked up by any other mainstream media source unless it’s heavy on the negative reporting.
Ex. I heard on NPR that 30% of the Sunni’s registered will not vote.
That is the same as saying ;
” 70% will make it to one of the 3,000 voting stations on election day .”
But why give a flicker of hope that the Iraqi’s may gain an upper hand on the security situation as the time to prepare their constitution nears ?
This general knows it’s a long, slow uphill fight that has the results decided in years and not
“New York minutes”.
January 30th, 2006, what will the headlines be on the first anniversary ?
Will Iraq be worse off letting the supressed majority Shia and Kurds in the north voice their opinion ?
No.
Will reporting the “dark lining to a silver cloud” that “the ex ruling Sunni minority were disenfranchised with the election results” be the preffered newspaper selling main stream norm ?
yes.
btw
Is General Muhammad Abdullah Shahwani a Shia in his tribal roots?
Oops. Just checked this out. Maybe I got it all wrong about Fallujah…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4186231.stm
Apparently, according to Lt Gen John Sattler there has been no hostile fire for 10 days, 140,000 Fallujans have returned home, and “if you’re in Falluja, you’ll be able to vote in Falluja. It will be safe. It will be secure”. My apologies for doubting the words of the US military.
Only thing is that they have not yet put the word out to the Iraqi people about all this. Should be an interesting exercise in democracy. Christopher, do you know anyone likely to be covering the elections in Fallujah?
Hey Chris, how about interviewing some of our U.S. soldier/rapist/torturers featured in this article?
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewPrint&articleId=9044
didja hear about the Allawi killing of 6 insurgents a couple of months back? well the story is back:
http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news2/smh41.html
‘member Chris I asked you if you thought about asking Allawi this when you interviewed him?
well anyway you stay safe, if it gives you any relief its about 5 degrees back in nyc:)
Regarding Trudy Rubin’s column in today’s Detroit Free Press (1/19/05):
I found the following to be a telling statement:
“Unless a formula could be found to bring most Sunnis into the system, some people in this room feared that the country would sink into civil war.”
There is no magic formula available here to accomplish this goal. Iraq IS a civil war! The only thing that has prevented it from boiling over in the past has been the lid of brutal dictatorship. Just as Yugoslavia experienced, once the heavy hand is removed, the simmering contents can explode.
Delaying elections will not solve anything. That would be a victory for the insurgents, who have everything to lose in a democracy. Military means by the US, attempting to”reach out to the insurgents (i.e. kidnappers, suicide bombers, beheaders, etc)” will not work, ultimately. The people of Iraq are struggling as if in childbirth, trying to come forth as a nation instead of a collection of vassel fiefdoms.
What is needed here is gritty determination and courage, the courage to take a chance on democracy, to take a chance on true nationhood, even in the face of bloodletting and uncertainty.
What is needed here is gritty determination and courage, the courage to take a chance on democracy, to take a chance on true nationhood, even in the face of bloodletting and uncertainty.
*hey, Jerome why don’t you sign up? instead of arm-chair quarterbacking. You watch too much History Channel.
Dear Chris, are you able to gather information about Fallujah? There is virtually no info about the situation there, maybe you are able to get some news?
“Iraq IS a civil war”. Perhaps the resistance groups would like to forment one, but some (including Iraqis) have reported the divides in the country are more tribal than sectarian.
Dominik,
Check this out for an interesting report on Fallujah…
http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=2124
It makes rather painful reading I’m afraid.
Oh come on Javi, a report by a professor of sociology in New York (where I happen to live) is not a good place for any objective analysis of the situation. No doubt, the city was bombarded. It will eventually be re-built. In time, Iraq will be a wealthy country, as they should have been for decades (oil for starters). And he describes rebuilding like it was a modern 21st century infrastructure that was demolished. I find that pretty unlikely.
And the guy who runs the site, Tom, states “the Carthage we’ve created in Falluja”. We allowed hundreds of thousands to leave the city before entering, did not go house to house slaughtering civilians (intentionally - casualties are unavoidable with that much violence), are not selling the remaining citizens into slavery, nor salting their farmlands. And we are providing money to help rebuild and distribute aid. Not Shangri-La, but hardly Carthage. A little perspective please…
amen, todd.
ReTodd,
Those Fallujah folks should be kissing our butts because they owe us bigtime. Will we kill a few more of them? You bet!
@Peter Baldwin:
“you bet”???
Have you ever killed anyone?
Did it make you feel good?
People like you are a disease.
You need treatment.
Todd,
A couple of points…
“No doubt, the city was bombarded” - FACT.
“It will eventually be re-built.” - not fact. Pure speculation. Track recoprd so far is not encouraging.
“Iraq will be a wealthy country, as they should have been for decades (oil for starters)” - not fact. Oil does not confer wealth upon a country, certainly not on the population. Look at Venezuela, Nigeria, etc etc. This a widespread myth that the poulation benefits from oil wealth.
My point is that a report from NYC is about as likely to be accurate as anything else, as there is simply no objective or accurate reporting from Fallujah. Anyone who believes the rubbish coming from military spokesmen need their heads examining. ‘Embedded reporting’ simply cannot be taken seriously, no more than the more rabid comments of the anti-US brigade, a few exceptions aside - very good piece in The Economist a couple of weeks ago. However while independent reporting, or assessment is not possible (or allowed by the US), credibility remains suspended. That is my perspective.
Javi
Oh yeah, one other thing about the destruction (or half-destruction, whatever…) of Fallujah – Shahwani states that the operation was a failure. The goals of destroying the terrorists and their leadership were not achieved.
Does that count as good result then?
Javi
@ ToddG
What you are writing is disgusting. You’re telling us a nice Disney story, as like the Fallujans should be soooo glad that the brave Americans came and bombed errr freed their, not so impressive, city - maybe the liked the city that way? The even were “allowed” to leave before their city was bombed to rubble - how nice of the Americans, they are so human. And moreover you are not even salting their farmlands or making them your slaves - you people are soo nice that the whole world loves you, really! I hope your Fuhrer Bush pushes into Iran to “free” it - they will kick your asses three times around the globe as they have not been weakened by decades of sanctions imposed by the UN (or better said: the US, the other countries wanted to lift some of them, escpecially to get medicaments into the country, but the US always vetoed).
Bring em on! George Bush is the greatest president of all time, and a war hero too. He was an ace fighter pilot in Vietnam - well, Alabama. Why don’t you losers come to Washington, DC. Our Congressman and Senators, and Bush’s daughters, will kick your asses all the way back to Mecca. You are all to yellow to come to America - yellow like John Kerry, the draft dodger and deserter
Dominik,
I totaly agree with you on Todd.
During ww2 the germans occupied most of europe and thus all the people fighting against them as partisans and freedomfighters were called just that, freedomfighters and partisans. Allthough the germans possible called them Terrorists….but history have shown they are and were great heros.
The people suporting or working for the illegal invation and ocupation force are all traitors, atleast they were during ww2 so why not now ?
The similiarities with Bush and his party is very close to Hitler and his party and all those vho voted or were for Bush are the same as all those how voted of were for Hitler.
USA have already lost the war in Iraq and still continue on the path of destruction and theft of oil. If they are now so foolish that they take on Iran then they deserve all that is comming to them….and army with 1 million fully equipted men + an 5 million reserve all fully equipted.
Cheaney said that Israel might attack Iran…but we all know that would be by order from DC and thus the USA can and must exspect that Iran will enter the fight i Iraq aswell.
USA is the world terrorist and the treath to peace in the world.
And Peter baldwing, I exspect you are one of the famous sofa-warriors who instead of fighting the war you sit back in the safe comfort of your home and enjoys virtual wargames….why not show us that you actualy have guts and volunteere for the task in the war sone instead of sitting back here ?
Media bias has a focus is on the advertisers dollar.
So, any news about Sadr city ,the Shia slum of Baghdad reported by main stream ?
If it’s BAD news… yes, its reported…
This is an excerpt to an article about that need of “putting an Iraqi face ” on the security situation.
……………………
Iraqi Army’s 306th Battalion Takes Over a Portion of Sadr City
Baghdad, Iraq — The Iraqi Army’s 306th Battalion,…..
assumed responsibility for security operations in a portion of the Sadr City area.
Lt. Col. Gary Volesky, commander of 2nd Battalion, 5th Cavalry Regiment, Lancers, passed symbolic colors to 306th Commander Lt. Col. Hussein Musin Bahar Al-Freejy, an eastern Baghdad native, in a ceremony on Jan. 18.
Sadr City, an area of intermittent unrest since the Lancers arrived in Iraq almost a year ago, is home to an estimated 2.5 million people.
Several areas throughout the country have been transferred to Iraqi Security Forces in the last few months, moving toward the ultimate Multi-National Forces goal of an autonomous Iraqi Security Force and Iraqi government.
The transfer was very timely, Hussein said
“The transfer is very important, especially for the elections,” he said through an interpreter. “There is a great need for the people to know that the U.S. is transferring authority to the Iraqi Army.”
http://www.mnf-iraq.com/media-information/January/050121f.htm
………….
It’s going to take a year to get a firm handle of putting down the Batthists abuse of Sunni tribes.
Media screams “America,get out now” !
say !!
…didn’t the US military scale down in Saudi Arabia a few years ago ?
And what nation’s “footprint” has filled that vacuum ?
Short term memory lapse?
Or
an overlooked fact when discussing an end to American Imperialism. ;-)
LOL
New York journalists are not the best authority on Iraq !
They “troll” the internet ( as we do ) for stories that will not offend the advertisers or,
that “recent polls” show the public opinion want to read.
So, they have a firm arrogant grasp on an angle that borrows from many other ” borrowed” by-line opinions in archived format….
they then pencil whip an article and POOF!
paydirt!
They go out get that inflated pay check cashed ! lol
They have thier “points of view” safely perched deep down inside the man made
New York Canyon ,
but what in their New York minute lives give them the right to tell those bloggers in Iraq they can’t see what is happening….outside their own front window ?
They only choose the ones that support their own opinionated lifestyle.
… they would never be caught dead outside the north east corridoor.
Give Iraq back to the supressed majority.
Let them make mistakes.
Let them set up the exit time table.
Ah the vagaries of online comments. First off, in no way did I state what happened to Falluja was in any way “good” or deserved or Disney-like. And many of the other points I mentioned were in pointing out that the other writer’s comparison of it TO CARTHAGE was not a reasonable comparison. If you don’t know what the Romans did to Carthage go read about it.
As for the country being wealthy - of course it’s no rule that a country with oil will be rich - on a wide scale at least - but with a non-dictatorial government the wealth secured from selling oil will benefit the country much more than building another palace for Saddam. Next year? Not likely. Over years, decades? Quite likely. Same for Falluja being rebuilt. I ain’t saying next month. Years.
Everyone needs to work on their knee-jerk reactions to everything they don’t immediately agree with or recognize from their daily blog-reading. And that applies to people from all over the political spectrum, pro- or anti-war. People seem to have no ability to reasonably debate anything.
I will admit by this point I also find most criticism from much of Europe completely worthless. All most of Europe does is bitch about the US. Either “why did you do this” or “why didn’t you do this”. Meanwhile the Balkans raged on, with top criminal butchers STILL free in Serbia and nearby, the EU presence reluctant to strongly persue them; Rwandan genocide, the mess in Darfur, etc. And I hate saying this because I’ve loved the many places I’ve been in Europe and many cultural parts of Europe. But this bitching from the peanut gallery while doing not much at all is just lame. I hope things approve all around.
To whomever monitors this comment section;
If you are going to delete specific points or sentences of a post,
why don’t you just delete the entire post instead of making my 2nd post look very incoherent?
Say,
Did my comments about certain members of the New York media strike a familiar nerve ?
and
To quote ToddG;
“… But this bitching from the peanut gallery while doing not much at all is just lame.
I hope things approve all around.”
If you are talking about the situation in Iraq, things will improve and that upsets the “I told you So-ers.”
lol
This board has lost it’s early liberated thinking followers long ago.
But some may come back to post if the news ever gets ugly enough.
:)
Friends, Peter Baldwin is historically a liberal, anti-US poster. I’m surprised nobody has picked up the sarcastic tone of his posts this time around… I would like to attribute them to a gap in his ability to cogently discuss the topics presented here, but I’m afraid he is using your misunderstanding to fan the flames of your dislike of people who support the war. A rather ugly approach, Peter. I wish you’d just be who you are.
annieburd
I pray that the Iraqis who want to fight the Americans Grow in Number and for once I would like to believe the Numbers like 3,00,000 or above. This is not war on terror Its a War against Iraqis.
Truth can not be bruied forever behind the Vile Curtains of Journlism as shown on Western TVs or Written in Media.
You better keep prayin’ then. And you’re right, it is now a War on Iraqis — waged by a Sunni minority who will be losing power for the first time in decades and a bunch of fascist Islamic “militants” who insist their way is the only way.
I having been following this thread and numerous others at other blogs for seemingly countless months now. What I think is being lost in this conversation is the cost in terms of human suffering that this Iraq conflict has inflicted. And no one is being held accountable. This isn’t a war we (the United States) had to fight. It is one we chose to start. There were no WMD that made this war so urgent. Yet no one is being held accountable.
We destroyed much of Falluja and left more than 200000 people homeless or displaced. Yet we didn’t capture one significant terrorist leader. Toddg casually from the comfort of his home says Falluja will be rebuilt some day. But what about the people now. They have no recourse. Their children are dying right now. Maybe some of those who survive will get a house back. No one is being held accountable. We accidently drop a 500 lb bomb on an innocent household. No one is held accountable. The Pentagon barely issues an apology even though a whole family is wiped out.
Is this the callous civilization we in the USA have become? We comfortably dismiss the daily truth that our taxpayer money is funding a war which is killing womem and children at rates rivaling that of the horrid Sadam regime. Yet somehow we convince ourselves it is ok for us to do this. I could go on and on.
But I hope some will stand back and look at this thing objectively. There has to be international justice. And those who do war for reasons which are later proven to be totally false must be held accountable. Or there is no hope for peace in this world.
I know there are terrorists in over 60 countries who are doing horrid crimes against humanity. But this does not justify our doing the same. My tax dollars aren’t funding their actions but they are funding this abomination in Iraq. Iraq hasn’t improved the safety of the world in any measurable way. It certainly has not improved the lives of Iraqis, and yet no one is being held accountable.
“Secret Pentagon plan to foment terrorism”
http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php?article=101394&list=/home.php&
Could this possibly be true? I really hope Hersh’s wrong about this for all our sakes.
Chrisb,
That is absolutely true and we see it in the pattern.
Littel or no help for the 911 investigation shows that these fellows were in cooperation with mossad and al-queda. We see the pentagon “plane” as not beeing a plane becouse of the small impact and no pictures were ever taken of the airplane, knowing that the pentagon have more then enough cameras to record anything.
We see that the mantra that saddam gassed the kurds is also a lie, becouse at that time only the iranians had that kind a wmd and the iranians also called on the west saying that saddam gassed the kurds. Here the American war college did as early as in just after this happened come out and say it was the iranians who gassed the kurds, but usa ranted on to sell the war of saddam beeing a bad man.
Rummsfled lied and lied in front of the investigation after the torture and so did the generals, but no second questioning have happened.
For this agenda to come in effect there had to be massive election fraud again to secure Bush a win, and it happened, where else have there been a election day poll where the winner actualy lost ? USA went out and bashed Ukraine for same thing just after.
USA is now the NAZI nation and Bush is just a poppet propaganda minister who party, have vacations and live the life of a president while his ppl are working in the backround and running the large US war machine into and massmurdering spree around the world.
All those who voted for Bush are NAZIS and it is time someone took action and removed this filth before it gets to be a nuclear holocouse.
Paalao,
Get a grip man. Rational discussion is one thing, but talking a complete load of bollocks is something else.
Javi, here read this and see if I have lost it ?
The Rise of the Amerikan Nazi
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7481.htm
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7499.htm
Who really gassed the Kurds?
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1148.htm
So here is my evidence, read it and then show me how I am wrong ?
Paalao
Funny to read about Alawi as “little Saddam”, seems the US still desperately tries to get back a Saddam regime without Saddam.
That was their initial plan, but I guess they will fail badly.
Looks as if today the freedom fighters did score big time. Till June the US will be basically left alone there, the ones who got tricked in this stupid war will go home by then. After that the party really starts.
Seymour Hersh - when is f** USA going to awaken?
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/26/1450204
Annieburd,
I realize this site attracts an international audience, so inside jokes can be misapprehended. I just wish you were more outraged about the genicide against the Sunni’s than my post.
Paalao,
I strongly oppose this war and was kidding. Bush was no war hero; he was a cowardly deserter. Alabama, where Bush flew, is in the US, and Bush never went to Vietnam. I actually fought in Vietnam as an artillery officer with the 101st Airborne.
The point about my second post is that people should not hate the average American, who has been brainwahsed by an unfree press amd biased media. Bremer invited the terrorists to come back to New York. I think those who are infuriated by the actions of the US should blame those who perpetrated the war crimes - Bush, Chaney, Wolfowitz, and the Republicans. They should demand war trials for these criminals. The attack on the trade towers only punished powerless innocents. Bush and company couldn’t care less about those deaths. Bush and the Congress started this mass murdering of innocents to steal oil. Those are the guys to go after.
Peter,
I know. I had the pleasure of beeing a commerical helicopter and airplane pilot in the USA and Canada for four years and are well aware of what the USA is standing for. I know about the life in same nations as my work took me all over there and I learned to know very many decent people so I still have hope for you, but I must say it is diminishing day per day.
A US sponcored war crime tribunal of the guilty in this war, aka the us government , will shave of maybe as much as a decade of the mistrust the USA now haw in the world arena.
Since this war begun and prior I have been a vivid debater in the undernet irc channel called #political and I have thrue my time there beed debating the true facts about what the motives were and what the agenda is.
Yes I am not an american, I am an Norwegian who also served with the Royal Norwegian Medical corps in Norther Norway where I was at the then Sovjet border during the cold war.
I now hold the rank of captain. (in case of conflict)
But as I stated in my erlier article about the american nazi, you will find lots of information backing up my claims there and it is sad that I have to point that out in here, that there is actualy a policy going on that is very similar to that of nazi germany.
Peter, me and you feel the same in most cases I am sure.
Posted by: Paalao at January 24, 2005 12:21 PM
“”We see the pentagon “plane” as not beeing a plane becouse of the small impact and no pictures were ever taken of the airplane, knowing that the pentagon have more then enough cameras to record anything.”“
….
…..
I’ve visited the various conspirecy websites also but they fail to explain
THE FLIGHT MANIFEST….
What happened to the people that “supposedly” were aboard the Pentagon “plane”
What about the “plane” that crashed in Pennsylvania? Sure the nearby trees and brush burned but
It also left a ‘suspiciously small’ impact area in the ground.
Those flying aluminium tubes certainly couldn’t be that light weight to leave only a hole the size and shape of a crumpling beer can
Also the two “planes” that entered the World Trade Center buildings left a “suspiciously small ” entrance hole that only looked only two floors floors in height. They “appeared” to be of the shape of a flying aluminium flying “airplane tube” that struck the pentagon and the Pennsylvania countryside.
Those “planes” were all jew robots laden with high explosives !
All people aboard were massoud agents on a mytar mission !
THAT is FACT ! ;-)
:-o
the “19” hijackers never existed.
Sorry Airhead you are wrong there, it happened but not at same scale as previous though off.
Opss..sorry airdale, for writing your nick wrong!
LOL
namecalling ?
that is your best arguement Paalao ?
That is the only leg you have.
I never argue with a troll.
They’ll pull you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Are the black helicopters still being repelled by your aluminium hat ?