The Confrontation That Wasn't

I agree with you about being underwhelmed. And I’d like to add to your question regarding the timing. How does the administration want people to respond to this? They aren’t the sort, after all, to simply gives all the facts and encourage the public to make an informed decision. They release information selectively in order to shape public opinion to gain support for some ill-advised course of action.

This is more like a youtube prank video than something any serious person can view unskeptically…

I’m not skeptic at all. Just as the Russians fly their jets close to where they “shouldn’t”, this is what the Iranians did. They can test the US by getting close, but not too close. They may look like nothing, but they are Iranian naval vessels, not someone out on a fishing trip. And, if 5 of them are coming towards you at a fast speed, how can you not see that as provoking or harassing? Does nobody remember the USS Cole? Do any of you conspiracy lovers remember these events? Small boat hits big ship, blows up, kills Americans.

And why do you automatically look at the “timing” being something on the end of the US? The timing of the incident was Iran, not the US. Iran didn’t deny anything happened, they just downplayed it. It’s a perfect time for them to do this, as Bush is in the region. Great time for David to toss a pebble at Goliath.

I’m not doubting it happened, but given the admission (now) that the U.S. can’t confirm the creepy warning came from the speed boats and the video shows something that really shouldn’t be a diplomatic incident, you have to wonder at the timing… NOT the timing of the actual event, but the fact that it was leaked at all and when it was leaked. My point, tortured as it is, is that this didn’t need to be a big deal until the someone in Washington made it a big deal.

If the radio transmission came from one of the boats, the shore, or Tehran, I haven’t heard reports that the transmission did not come at the time of the incident. If they were at that time, while Iranian naval vessels are coming quickly towards our fleet ships, that seems like a big deal.

At what point does it become a big deal worth “leaking” to you? It’s not when multiple Iranian vessels are testing ours. It’s not when there is a radio transmission saying they will blow up while Iranian vessels are quickly approaching ours. So, it’s when? Is it only a big deal when someone dies?

Now, don’t think I believe everything our gov’t puts out there. But, I do still trust it more than the Iranian gov’t.

Wouldn’t there be background sound of the outboard motors of the small boats heard while the Iranian was making the radio threat? Those little boats make a helluva lot of noise-why can’t we hear any of it?

According to the NYT, this scenario - using speedboat swarms to attack Navy war groups - has been tested during wargames in ‘02 and shown to be extremely effective. It may look like “Miami Vice,” but there is a credible threat there.

There’s an old saying that goes ‘Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice , shame on me.” GHW Bush LIED to get Americans to support the first Gulf War (babies dumped from incubators, among other stories). The current Bush administration LIED to everyone to start a conflict with Iraq (WMD, missiles that could reach Europe, active nuclear program, drones that could spread anthrax in the US…). Now the current Bush administration is spreading similar stories about Iran.

Now I don’t think Iran is a good guy or a totally innocent party. They deserve watching. But with the Bush families, and the current Occupant of the White House’s history if lying to start wars and then lying about those wars, and then lying just for the fun of lying, I think a huge amount of skepticism about this and everything else coming out of the US government is very appropriate.

Yeah. A lot of people are saying that the radio voice was too clear to have come from the boats. Probably it came from a pranker.

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/01/navyhormuziranradio080111/

Way to prank GWB into nuking Iran. The man is not sane to begin with but if you startle him he tends to attack countries.

Oops. The link is dead. Here is that link again.

geoduck, you sound like a Mike Moore fool. Who was lying for the “fun of lying”? Can you cite some examples, or are you calling people liars for the sake of calling them liars? Not to mention you seem to disregard the fact that “lying” and “believing faulty intelligence from MULTIPLE countries” aren’t the same thing. If I tell you the dirt in China tastes like lemon, and you tell someone else, it doesn’t make you a liar… even if Moore says it does.

I’m unsure of the “similar stories about Iran” you are speaking of. Can you clarify? The “stores” about their nuclear pursuits come right out of Iran, from Iran. The only discrepancy is that they say they don’t want nuclear weapons, just “peaceful” nuclear technology. The fact is they have wanted nuclear technology for the use of weapons for decades. Then, you state they “deserve watching”. If we are being told “stories” and “lies”, then why do they deserve watching?

There seems to be no lies in this story. And, the story is in fact more of a big deal than Chris and others want to think. Hostile boats “swarming” naval ships at the same time a transmission is sent saying you will blow up.. seems like big news. If the transmission came from an Iranian naval vessel.. big news. If it came from a prankster who could easily have started a conflict… big news.

Hi Christopher,

Just heard on the news Bush saying something about how bad Iran was again. Those blue speed boats have really rattled the world and bought them all on side.

I don’t know if you can talk to some people but I wonder what the harm would be to start a truly meaningful dialogue with Iran. Unless of course there is some sort of idealogical reason as to not to.

I also saw Mr Bush doing something with a black yarmulke on his head during this trip abroad. So is this a case of changing your look to suit your audience as I thought he was into fundamentalist Christians as well. I perhaps don’t understand

So being a broker for peace in the middle east goes out the window if your seeking the middle ground in negotiations, such as they are…

Ruprect.

I came to a similar ‘miami vice’ conclusion as well as a couple of others.
Read what I wrote on my blog. Iran Speedboats

Christopher,

This confrontation was. I think you’re speaking from ignorance on this one. I’m going to comment based only on the event as a Navy guy not in the Pentagon, and am not speaking to any of the political implications—although I realize there’s lots of political stuff about; one could argue lots of things in different directions because of the encounter.

Bottom line up front: This encounter is something that happens in the Navy, this is a tense situation that we train for, and was within a very short period of being concluded in a more violent fashion. The Iranians provoked deliberately, for reasons unknown, and the Americans followed their proper responses with a lot of restraint (to the point where second-guessing naval officers were complaining about holding fire—but the guy on the scene has the information and the decision and that’s whose decision matters).

Here’s a 13 Jan debrief video from two commanders. There is also an Iranian video published in response that is also inconclusive.

—General impressions: Navy interactions look much more slow and boring then they really are until you internalize the time/speed/distance/size discrepancy issues. Things like crossing a bow are a big deal that a civilian won’t see as the provocation it was.
—The torpedoes I carried had very small warheads compared to the big ships it would sink—half the size of a pickle bucket, perhaps. The little ships don’t need to be big to cause disproportionate damage, which is why the IRGC bought so many of them. They also have the advantage in that they’re not sinking ships so much as buying advertising, as it were, in some scenarios. —White boxes: The video looks as though it came from just one snoopy team, maybe two. I don’t think the ships getting the boxes got the video in time—but it may be that DoD kept that video close hold until they took a closer look at it. Hopper’s a big ship and they likely didn’t have cameras other than on the bridge. My guess. —Queries: This querying thing is a precise dance, done all over the world. Things like the wording of the transit and hull numbers and so forth are done with words that have significance—you don’t want to say “transit passage” when you want to say “innocent passage”, or say “I’m USS Umptyfratz” and so forth. —Weird voice: I think you’re talking about the threatening voice at the end of the video. I’m guessing that’s what they were talking about on ch16, an open channel populated in the Straits by drunk stupid people as well as every ship in the region. 16’s a short range circuit, but the ships were close enough to dry land in a busy waterway to have someone stirring up trouble. —Historical perspective: The IRGC is being more provocative of late. They have done this before and usually prior to increased aggression against ships in the Gulf.
—More details: CDR Salamander’s hosted a symposium of sorts at his blog.

I just wanted to comment on the Iranian-U.S. Navy boat incident. A lot of people are looking at this very wrong. They see our mighty destroyers and cruisers up against a few speed boats. Apparently they think that a speed boat cannot threat a modern U.S. Navy warship. I want to remind everyone that the U.S.S. Cole (a guided missle destroyer) was attacked by a small craft with two men on board. It was believed to be packed with 400-700 pounds of explosives. The explosion blew a 40 foot hole in the side of the U.S.S. Cole killing seventeen U.S. sailors and wounding 39 more. You should also remember that Clinton didn’t do a damn thing about it. Am I the only one who remembers this????? I thought our Navy would have been justified in blowing those boats out of the water. I thought our Navy showed great restraint and professionalism. ————Former U.S. Squid